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Melchizedek's Declaration about "Peace on Earth"

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#101 Bill Martin

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

At Lake Urmia, Jesus said,"P.1489 - §3 Peace will not come to Urantia until every so-called sovereign nation surrenders its power to make war into the hands of a representative government of all mankind."

Countries will "look out for their own" and deny social responsibility for what befalls those in other polities and places. In the case of Climate change, food shortages and more immediate and threatening, water shortages, will bring continuous war to this planet. When China can no longer feed its people, they will "take over" Thailand's "rice bowl" just as they have seized control of all the water in Asia and are redirecting it northward to farm their arid North.Our current social and governmental structures have not the flexibility necessary to adapt to the changes and face the stresses of the 21st Century.P.1013 - §9 "Modern man is confronted with the task of making more readjustments of human values in one generation than have been made in two thousand years. And this all influences the social attitude toward religion, for religion is a way of living as well as a technique of thinking."

Social responsibility of the highest and most inspiring order is appearing in Plutocrats such as Bill Gates and Warren Buffett giving all their wealth to charity causes. The embarassment of dying "filthy rich" does not appeal to these enlightened masters of Capitalism and it is my hope that their example will inspire (or embarass) others to emulate their behavior. Having more than you could possibly need should not inspire self-respect.

"But every one who hears this charge and sincerely executes his commission to represent me before men even as I have represented my Father to you, shall find an abundant entrance into my service and into the kingdom of the heavenly Father."
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#102 Bonita

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

I think that wealthy people have been doing philanthropic work for millennia. One of the things that we cannot see with much clarity because we're in the middle of it, is the readjustment of society. At one time the rich were the lords and ladies who kept whole villages flourishing. When industrialism entered, the richer classes began to lose their agricultural base and money began to fly every which way. Those mega millionaires of the Gilded Age, however, did contribute to culture and charity. But at one time, being a gentleman was the way to exercise power. The downside of course was that in order to be a gentleman, one had to also have wealth. Then came the Great War and the advent of communistic ideas. Social classes crashed, gentlemanliness declined and lawlessness ensued. We went from the Gilded Age to the Roaring Twenties and beyond where gangsters instead of gentlemen wielded power. We still are run by gangsters and we still are trying to destroy social classes. While we do that, the very rich have no other choice but to give as much of their money away as possible lest the gangster mentality simply takes it. Sooner or later, we will realize that gentleman must return and social classes will never go away. We will also realize that what men and women decide to do with their money is their own business.

I'm really tired of people calling the rich filthy. What about the filthy poor? And I'm not talking about physical cleanliness. We tend to forgive them just because they're poor while noble rich men are always filthy and unforgiven unless they give all their money away, regardless of how they got it. If indeed the means by which the rich got their lucre is filthy, then of course something needs to be done about it. But those courageous souls who have come by their wealth honestly should be left out of this kind of hate speech. Gentlemanly, honorable and noble people can be either rich or poor. I'm just really sick and tired of hate speech. Instead of hating the so-called filthy rich and hating their so-called filthy money (unless it's given away) how about everyone learning how to be courteous, civil, well-mannered, polite, gracious, considerate, thoughtful, cultured and caring?

I just think making demands about what other people should do with their money is ungentlemanly and gangsterlike, whether it's coming from government or the proletariate. Instead of trying to eliminate differences in classes based upon wealth, we should work to make them all the same in civility and gracious consideration of one another. After all, we will not get rid of all social classes until, perhaps, we are settled in light and life, which is too far off in the future to even contemplate.

3:5.7 2. Is altruism - service of one's fellows - desirable? Then must life experience provide for encountering situations of social inequality.

#103 Bill Martin

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:18 PM

"Different strokes for different folks..."

Our neighbors have evolved a healthier outlet for the natural competitive urges:


Two hundred years ago the profit motive was wholly dominant in industry, but today it is being rapidly displaced by other and higher driving forces. Competition
P.814 - §0 is keen on this continent, but much of it has been transferred from industry to play, skill, scientific achievement, and intellectual attainment. It is most active in social service and governmental loyalty. Among this people public service is rapidly becoming the chief goal of ambition. The richest man on the continent works six hours a day in the office of his machine shop and then hastens over to the local branch of the school of statesmanship, where he seeks to qualify for public service.

Like you say Bonita, It is difficult to perceive because we are in the middle of it all. Spiritual transformation will lead a person to give another "the shirt off their back." I don't believe it is correct to call that communism, it is love. And is it not enlightened and proper for an individual to make that decision to give away what they don't, couldn't possibly use? Or is it put to better use by putting it into trust for future generations of ones own bloodlines.

Bill Gates trying to address the need for better waste disposal, the design of a better toilet, for the world seems to me of much greater good for a greater number, than protecting an ongoing class of trust fund babies who were given what their ancestors worked hard to get. Don't take umbrage with me. I am talking about individual rights, decisions and spiritual transformation that leads one to understand Jesus' injunction "It is more blessed to give than receive."

"These people are also beginning to foster a new form of social disgust--disgust for both idleness and unearned wealth. Slowly but certainly they are conquering their machines. Once they, too, struggled for political liberty and subsequently for economic freedom. Now are they entering upon the enjoyment of both while in addition they are beginning to appreciate their well-earned leisure, which can be devoted to increased self-realization."(72-5)
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#104 Bonita

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:45 PM

I'm not taking umbrage with you Bill. I know you're working with the angels of progress, but I'm working with the angels of the churches, and it is my responsibility to offer checks and balances as well as to work towards "the safe transit of moral values from one epoch to another." Just doing my job.

Inherited wealth is just as important as earned wealth. We are told that property inheritance is a distinct social advance. We should not destroy something that serves a worthwhile purpose just because a few have misused it. Giving something to the next generation, whether it be within your own family or the family of mankind, is a noble effort. I truly believe the people who scream the most about its injustice do it out of jealousy and hate rather than understanding its value to society. And don't forget, people like Gates are also bequeathing money to their so-called bloodlines too; they're not giving it all to charities. And, do you think that if Gates suddenly ran out of money he'd stop his good works? No, he'd just solicit funds from other wealthy people with good hearts. The bottom line really has nothing to do with his wealth.

69:9.3 The later capital-accumulation and property-inheritance mores were a distinct social advance. And this is true notwithstanding the subsequent gross abuses attendant upon the misuse of capital.

And giving the shirt off your back is an act of love only as long as the government or a mob isn't holding a gun to your head making you do so. An act of love is not an act of love if it is coerced, which is why God doesn't make any mandates concerning our free will.

Is it enlightened for a person to give away what he can't use? Perhaps, and why not give it away to his progeny, or other members of his family? It's still giving it away. And who can say what a person can and cannot use. I have five sets of dishes. Do I need five sets of dishes? No. Do I use five sets of dishes, you betcha I do. Should I give four sets away because I don't need them? Just try to come and get them and see what happens. On the other hand, I have given away sets of dishes to people who need them or really want them. I'm not so in love with them that I can't make other people happy with them if I choose. It's my choice; in the meantime I get great pleasure out of using my dishes to entertain my friends and family, trying to make my little corner of the world a more beautiful and friendly place.

And yes, it is more blessed to give than to receive, but who are you to say who should give and who should receive? I mean, you're an enlightened and excellent fellow and all, but it's still not your right to decide these things. You can have an opinion, of course, and so can I. Individual opinions don't matter that much though, when you come right down to it. It's collective opinion that is driving this country and collective opinion is subject to media-driven group-think and mediocrity, unfortunately. And right now it's all about hating the filthy rich. I'm just looking for real fairness here. Inherited wealth can be a blessing to many and not all trust fund babies are filthy; not all wealth is filthy, regardless of your opinion of how it is used.

I'm sure if you needed a benefactor and some filthy rich dude decided to give you what you needed, all of a sudden he wouldn't be filthy rich anymore just because he gave you his money or goods. The filthy rich argument is just a one-sided view of the world, really, and all I'm doing is trying to keep things fair. Someone has to speak up for the ones vilified by group-think. Heck, I wish someone spoke up for the witches of Salem or other stupid group-think episodes in our history. Not that you're stupid or a group-thinker, but hate for the so-called filthy rich is both and it's been going on far, far too long . . . in my opinion, of course.

Edited by Bonita, 05 February 2013 - 04:22 PM.


#105 Guest_EEB aka AASB-AWSW_*

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:14 PM

I'm not taking umbrage with you Bill. I know you're working with the angels of progress, but I'm working with the angels of the churches, and it is my responsibility to offer checks and balances as well as to work towards "the safe transit of moral values from one epoch to another." Just doing my job.

Inherited wealth is just as important as earned wealth. We are told that property inheritance is a distinct social advance. We should not destroy something that serves a worthwhile purpose just because a few have misused it. Giving something to the next generation, whether it be within your own family or the family of mankind, is a noble effort. I truly believe the people who scream the most about its injustice do it out of jealousy and hate rather than understanding its value to society. And don't forget, people like Gates are also bequeathing money to their so-called bloodlines too; they're not giving it all to charities. And, do you think that if Gates suddenly ran out of money he'd stop his good works? No, he'd just solicit funds from other wealthy people with good hearts. The bottom line really has nothing to do with his wealth.

69:9.3 The later capital-accumulation and property-inheritance mores were a distinct social advance. And this is true notwithstanding the subsequent gross abuses attendant upon the misuse of capital.

And giving the shirt off your back is an act of love only as long as the government or a mob isn't holding a gun to your head making you do so. An act of love is not an act of love if it is coerced, which is why God doesn't make any mandates concerning our free will.

Is it enlightened for a person to give away what he can't use? Perhaps, and why not give it away to his progeny, or other members of his family? It's still giving it away. And who can say what a person can and cannot use. I have five sets of dishes. Do I need five sets of dishes? No. Do I use five sets of dishes, you betcha I do. Should I give four sets away because I don't need them? Just try to come and get them and see what happens. On the other hand, I have given away sets of dishes to people who need them or really want them. I'm not so in love with them that I can't make other people happy with them if I choose. It's my choice; in the meantime I get great pleasure out of using my dishes to entertain my friends and family, trying to make my little corner of the world a more beautiful and friendly place.

And yes, it is more blessed to give than to receive, but who are you to say who should give and who should receive? I mean, you're an enlightened and excellent fellow and all, but it's still not your right to decide these things. You can have an opinion, of course, and so can I. Individual opinions don't matter that much though, when you come right down to it. It's collective opinion that is driving this country and collective opinion is subject to media-driven group-think and mediocrity, unfortunately. And right now it's all about hating the filthy rich. I'm just looking for real fairness here. Inherited wealth can be a blessing to many and not all trust fund babies are filthy; not all wealth is filthy, regardless of your opinion of how it is used.

I'm sure if you needed a benefactor and some filthy rich dude decided to give you what you needed, all of a sudden he wouldn't be filthy rich anymore just because he gave you his money or goods. The filthy rich argument is just a one-sided view of the world, really, and all I'm doing is trying to keep things fair. Someone has to speak up for the ones vilified by group-think. Heck, I wish someone spoke up for the witches of Salem or other stupid group-think episodes in our history. Not that you're stupid or a group-thinker, but hate for the so-called filthy rich is both and it's been going on far, far too long . . . in my opinion, of course.


“I'm not taking umbrage with you Bill. I know you're working with the angels of progress, but I'm working with the angels of the churches, and it is my responsibility to offer checks and balances as well as to work towards "the safe transit of moral values from one epoch to another." Just doing my job.”

Bonita, by who’s authority are you just doing your Job?

This is not the first time where you have been intimidated by the implication of balancing the wealth among our brothers and sisters who are not among the higher classes who have wealth. By your statements above and in many other forum topics which have dared to venture along the same lines of mercy to the poor and less fortunate, has by far been most enlightening, to be sure.

However, the tone which proceeded does seem to be warranted and indicates that you have been or are being attacked directly, which I see no evidence thereof. I too have taken on the “devil’s advocate” approach many times but not to condemn but to defend mercy, as Jesus taught. If you are among the “filthy rich”, so be it, but do not deny those who would wish to apply Jesus’ mercy to those who have been living in darkness and death with little hope of achieving a dim glimmer of light and life before its time.

The UB saw fit to include the following narration from the Bible which is presented below, so it would seem that it has some value and requires additional observance.

(1883.4) 172:4.2 And now, as the evening drew on and the crowds went in quest of nourishment, Jesus and his immediate followers were left alone. What a strange day it had been! The apostles were thoughtful, but speechless. Never, in their years of association with Jesus, had they seen such a day. For a moment they sat down by the treasury, watching the people drop in their contributions: the rich putting much in the receiving box and all giving something in accordance with the extent of their possessions. At last there came along a poor widow, scantily attired, and they observed as she cast two mites (small coppers) into the trumpet. And then said Jesus, calling the attention of the apostles to the widow: “Heed well what you have just seen. This poor widow cast in more than all the others, for all these others, from their superfluity, cast in some trifle as a gift, but this poor woman, even though she is in want, gave all that she had, even her living.”

Mark 12: — KJV

38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,

39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:

40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.


You are entitles to your opinion, but please do not condemn those who do not see eye to eye with yours; and if you do not have the wherewithal to retain your wealth, based on the forthcoming changes in social and civil structure, I would suggest you get a different accountant who can adjust your P&L to your liking.

It is not that difficult to create a world where money is not the driving force to equality of living, which I have been well trained but, one thing I can tell you, it cannot happen overnight, and justice will and must prevail. There is no need for the poor to be with us always regardless of what Jesus said, which should probably be changed to the poor in Faith, Grace and Mercy.

Edited by EEB aka AASB-AWSW, 05 February 2013 - 06:15 PM.


#106 Rick Warren

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:52 PM

Gee guys, your passion for this is obvious, but it's getting too personal. Would you please better bear in mind the subject of this thread, what Melchizedek taught about PEACE on earth. I know for certain it has to include genuine respect for others' stances. It can be fraternal, can't it? Or is peace between believing siblings not even possible on Urantia, not even in light of new revelation?



Went back and found this pearl, from Mel, from 70:2:

...Man will never accept peace as a normal mode of living until he has been thoroughly and repeatedly convinced that peace is best for his material welfare, and until society has wisely provided peaceful substitutes for the gratification of that inherent tendency periodically to let loose a collective drive designed to liberate those ever-accumulating emotions and energies belonging to the self-preservation reactions of the human species.... P.786 - 11



Is this what sports is for?

#107 Bonita

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:19 PM

I don't think sports has anything to do with self-preservation, unless you're talking about extreme sports where you're likely to die. Of course I'm saying that tongue-in-cheek, but what do you think self-preservation reactions of the human species is all about? Don't you think climate change hysteria is a collective drive designed to liberate accumulating emotions about self-preservation?

#108 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:05 PM

A personal discussion between Jesus and the rich man is an interesting reflection on this particular aspect of the larger topic of peace to come....if only eventually, eh? I'll post just the beginning....but a good read:

5. Counseling the Rich Man

(1462.2) 132:5.1 A certain rich man, a Roman citizen and a Stoic, became greatly interested in Jesus’ teaching, having been introduced by Angamon. After many intimate conferences this wealthy citizen asked Jesus what he would do with wealth if he had it, and Jesus answered him: “I would bestow material wealth for the enhancement of material life, even as I would minister knowledge, wisdom, and spiritual service for the enrichment of the intellectual life, the ennoblement of the social life, and the advancement of the spiritual life. I would administer material wealth as a wise and effective trustee of the resources of one generation for the benefit and ennoblement of the next and succeeding generations.”


It would seem to me that opinions on the success and failure of our taxing and religious institutions to fairly and justly administer "public wealth" and transfers, it might be more profitable, so to speak, to focus on those evolutionary and transformative progressions experienced and the challenges to peace which remain obstacles to further progress. Tax codes aside, there is an amazing transfer, voluntary, of wealth to uplift and serve others. This is relatively new and encouraging. Where might that lead us all? How? What can we support rather than oppose? Just sayin'...... ;)
Peace be upon you."

#109 Guest_EEB aka AASB-AWSW_*

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:53 PM

I don't think sports has anything to do with self-preservation, unless you're talking about extreme sports where you're likely to die. Of course I'm saying that tongue-in-cheek, but what do you think self-preservation reactions of the human species is all about? Don't you think climate change hysteria is a collective drive designed to liberate accumulating emotions about self-preservation?


You may be correct, and it is not a sports competition, but on issues of the environment, such as events like the BP Oil Spill in the Gulf, there may be another way of looking at this event. One might consider that this was the lesser of two evils in that this event may just have been a pressure relief event which bypassed an event which may have been more detrimental to the environment and self-preservation. Not everything is as it seems to be.

Edited by EEB aka AASB-AWSW, 05 February 2013 - 08:54 PM.


#110 Bonita

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:35 PM

Tax codes aside, there is an amazing transfer, voluntary, of wealth to uplift and serve others. This is relatively new and encouraging. Where might that lead us all? How? What can we support rather than oppose? Just sayin'...... ;)


I'm thinking that we should support anything and anyone who promotes marriage, family and education. Are there any philanthropic groups working towards the stability of the family?

84:6.8 Marriage is the mother of all human institutions, for it leads directly to home founding and home maintenance, which is the structural basis of society. The family is vitally linked to the mechanism of self-maintenance; it is the sole hope of race perpetuation under the mores of civilization, while at the same time it most effectively provides certain highly satisfactory forms of self-gratification. The family is man's greatest purely human achievement, combining as it does the evolution of the biologic relations of male and female with the social relations of husband and wife.

84:7.29 Human society would be greatly improved if the civilized races would more generally return to the family-council practices of the Andites.

82:02 While religious, social, and educational institutions are all essential to the survival of cultural civilization, the family is the master civilizer. A child learns most of the essentials of life from his family and the neighbors.

82:03 The family as an educational institution must be maintained.

84:02 The family is the channel through which the river of culture and knowledge flows from one generation to another.

#111 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:40 AM

Allow me to express my gratitude to Rick, Bonita, Coop, Nigel, Absonite, Bill, Scott, EEB, and all others here who have chosen the "job" of teaching. None here are "chosen", except by the receptivity of all of us students or any of us students and by the generosity and determination and volition of all who contribute here. Some teach some truths better than other truths or other teachers and so it will always be. Me? I am student learning to become student-teacher for I see the growing need for more knowledgeable and more enlightened "teachers" and hope to become one. And here on this Forum of learning, teaching, and sharing, I am learning much about the Revelation, myself, my relationships, and the mind of the new reader and fellow student in their multi-faceted presentations of preconception and misconception (a common trait shared by us all to some degree). It is not good for any here to energize discordance regardless of any disagreements we naturally come to in regard to the complexities presented us with clear warning: mortal mind does not and cannot but rarely achieve true objectivity, time frame perspective, and discernment of many issues provided for our study in text. There will never be uniformity in the experience or understanding of the Revelation due simply to the nature of mortal mind and its limited capacity for comprehension and the even more limited perspective or point of view(ing) truth and reality, eh? This makes our sharing of multiple perspectives especially important, for by such triangulation of concepts and perspective each student may be rewarded by personal progress and we may all the more easily shed those prejudices or preconceptions which obscure the greater truths available by transcending those prejudices in mind via such triangulation with those we respect as teachers. Thanks to all for being here, I cannot express how profoundly grateful I am for that which I have learned here thereby.

I am reposting the original (#1) post by Rick to guide us all back, I hope, to that which supports Melchizidek's recognition of planetary evolutionary progress and the mechanisms and agents of Father and Michael which are fully engaged in supporting progress made and advancing progress to come. May we all refocus on the positive aspects of that issue....progress.....made and yet to come. And I agree with Bonita that the very foundation unit of civilization and progress is the family and it needs reinforcement and social support. Technology and mechanization has destroyed the extended family in America, we are now "nuclear" or small unit families which are under severe stress. Is this inevitable? Will developing countries avoid it? (China is certainly on the same path). Remember in all the stress of failures, it can be difficult to discern the hand of Father as He relentlessly but patiently turns our lemons into His lemonade. Let us be of good cheer as we share in this certain progress. B)



Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:26 AM
Dear Forum Members and Guests,

One of the most frank and (personally) startling statements from the Revelators about achieving our long sought after peace, was this one from a Melchizedek (70:3), one of the wise men of our celestial overseers:



...The peace of Urantia will be promoted far more by international trade organizations than by all the sentimental sophistry of visionary peace planning. Trade relations have been facilitated by development of language and by improved methods of communication as well as by better transportation....

He goes on:


...The absence of a common language has always impeded the growth of peace groups, but money has become the universal language of modern trade. Modern society is largely held together by the industrial market. The gain motive is a mighty civilizer when augmented by the desire to serve.... P.787 - 4

This is the season when the western world begins to chant the ancient adage that still goes unfulfilled, 'Peace on Earth'. Now we are shown the way by one who knows many worlds, many campaigns, many great teachers.

It seems worthy of highlighting on the Forum, and in our war-ridden world at this time of the year when we celebrate the life and teachings of the "Prince of Peace", so that we can intelligently steer the honorable drive for peace in the right direction. And a chance to hear others' reactions to Melchizedek's unorthodox peace declaration.

Peace be upon you."

#112 Bonita

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:13 AM

I think that Rick's first point had to do with commerce, trade and the almighty dollar (money) as peacemakers. I still don't see how money can be a peacemaker if there are people who think of it, or the people who have stewardship of it, as filthy. Isn't that a paradox? So the issue is not the money, but what people do with the money. Everyone seems to think that giving away money cleanses it somehow. The point I am trying to make is that just giving away money, or directing it toward charities for the poor is not the only way to cleanse the so-called filthy lucre. And what a person decides to do with his/her money does not determine his/her level of filth. Is it abuse of stewardship if a so-called filthy rich person, instead of giving money to a beggar decides to give it to his/her child's education and his/her grandchild's education? What's wrong with that and why isn't that promoting peace?

I think the Catholic Church over the centuries has made people feel horribly guilty if they don't give to the poor and needy. Not even Jesus would allow alms to be given without his approval or the approval of at least two apostles.

140:8.13 He made it clear that indiscriminate kindness may be blamed for many social evils. The following day Jesus definitely instructed Judas that no apostolic funds were to be given out as alms except upon his request or upon the joint petition of two of the apostles. In all these matters it was the practice of Jesus always to say, “Be as wise as serpents but as harmless as doves.” It seemed to be his purpose in all social situations to teach patience, tolerance, and forgiveness.

163:2.11 Jesus never personally had anything to do with the apostolic finances except in the disbursement of alms.

But who is to say who the poor and needy truly are? What makes one person more needy than another? How do we determine the neediest or should we even worry about that. Should we just give whenever the spirit moves us to? Is there a difference between giving money to build a school, synagogue or museum and giving to emergency relief groups and soup kitchens? I really don't think it's anybody's business what I consider to be charitable giving. What really matters is the growth of altruism.

Even so, money used altruistically is not the only way that commerce and trade promote peace. It's all about cultural cross-fertilization and communication which promotes education, tolerance and diminishment of fear. People won't trade with other people that they're afraid of unless they're trying to exploit them. Trade and commerce tears down boundaries and establishes contacts that are meant to grow once people realize that it is in their best interest. I really don't think philanthropy is the only game in town. Old fashioned business transactions and negotiations are just as useful, especially if there is the profit motive working on both sides of the deal. It only falls apart when one takes unfair advantage of the other or exploits those less informed or experienced.

163:2.11 But there was one economic abuse which he many times condemned, and that was the unfair exploitation of the weak, unlearned, and less fortunate of men by their strong, keen, and more intelligent fellows. Jesus declared that such inhuman treatment of men, women, and children was incompatible with the ideals of the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven.

#113 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:27 PM

My perspective is becoming more and more directed by those horrific steps in our history which resulted, despite their obvious inferiority, in the upliftment of social and civil progress. I'll begin with some of the ways mankind has benefited from slavery, as but one example (war and weaponry are another). The point is that we do NOT see the potential outworkings of our current BS or obstacles. How can we? Longerrrrrr.....perspectiveeeeeeee. More objectivity. Less emotionalism within our search for objectivity. That which we find objectionable and dangerous can still become an evolutionary progressor.

(778.9) 69:8.1 Primitive man never hesitated to enslave his fellows. Woman was the first slave, a family slave. Pastoral man enslaved woman as his inferior sex partner. This sort of sex slavery grew directly out of man’s decreased dependence upon woman.

(779.1) 69:8.2 Not long ago enslavement was the lot of those military captives who refused to accept the conqueror’s religion. In earlier times captives were either eaten, tortured to death, set to fighting each other, sacrificed to spirits, or enslaved. Slavery was a great advancement over massacre and cannibalism.

(902.3) 81:2.13 The institutions of slavery and private ownership of land came with agriculture. Slavery raised the master’s standard of living and provided more leisure for social culture.


“The modern idea of sex equality is beautiful and worthy of an expanding civilization, but it is not found in nature. When might is right, man lords it over woman; when more justice, peace, and fairness prevail, she gradually emerges from slavery and obscurity. Woman’s social position has generally varied inversely with the degree of militarism in any nation or age.” (936.7) 84:5.3


(776.6) 69:5.8 5. Power — the craving to be master. Treasure lending was carried on as a means of enslavement, one hundred per cent a year being the loan rate of these ancient times. The moneylenders made themselves kings by creating a standing army of debtors. Bond servants were among the earliest form of property to be accumulated, and in olden days debt slavery extended even to the control of the body after death.

(779.5) 69:8.6 Slavery was an indispensable link in the chain of human civilization. It was the bridge over which society passed from chaos and indolence to order and civilized activities; it compelled backward and lazy peoples to work and thus provide wealth and leisure for the social advancement of their superiors.

(779.6) 69:8.7 The institution of slavery compelled man to invent the regulative mechanism of primitive society; it gave origin to the beginnings of government. Slavery demands strong regulation and during the European Middle Ages virtually disappeared because the feudal lords could not control the slaves. The backward tribes of ancient times, like the native Australians of today, never had slaves.

(779.7) 69:8.8 True, slavery was oppressive, but it was in the schools of oppression that man learned industry. Eventually the slaves shared the blessings of a higher society which they had so unwillingly helped create. Slavery creates an organization of culture and social achievement but soon insidiously attacks society internally as the gravest of all destructive social maladies.

(779.8) 69:8.9 Modern mechanical invention rendered the slave obsolete. Slavery, like polygamy, is passing because it does not pay. But it has always proved disastrous suddenly to liberate great numbers of slaves; less trouble ensues when they are gradually emancipated.

(780.1) 69:8.10 Today, men are not social slaves, but thousands allow ambition to enslave them to debt. Involuntary slavery has given way to a new and improved form of modified industrial servitude.

(780.2) 69:8.11 While the ideal of society is universal freedom, idleness should never be tolerated. All able-bodied persons should be compelled to do at least a self-sustaining amount of work.

(780.3) 69:8.12 Modern society is in reverse. Slavery has nearly disappeared; domesticated animals are passing. Civilization is reaching back to fire — the inorganic world — for power. Man came up from savagery by way of fire, animals, and slavery; today he reaches back, discarding the help of slaves and the assistance of animals, while he seeks to wrest new secrets and sources of wealth and power from the elemental storehouse of nature.



And one directly to Bonita's salient points above:

(780.8) 69:9.5 3. The desire for liberty and leisure. In the earlier days of social evolution the apportionment of individual earnings among the group was virtually a form of slavery; the worker was made slave to the idler. This was the suicidal weakness of communism: The improvident habitually lived off the thrifty. Even in modern times the improvident depend on the state (thrifty taxpayers) to take care of them. Those who have no capital still expect those who have to feed them.

War, slavery, colonialism, serfdom, mechanization, technologies, currency, diplomacy, commerce, et al, have been but steps TOWARD potential but they are not THE potential to come, eh? What leads us forward today from here? B)

Edited by Bradly aka/fanofVan, 06 February 2013 - 01:28 PM.

Peace be upon you."

#114 Bonita

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:22 PM

Well, if what TUB says is true, that all true growth is unconscious, I doubt we would know for sure what leads us forward. Who would have thought that rebellion, slavery and world wars are actually mechanisms of growth? That doesn't mean that we should stop trying, but it does mean that we should stop vilifying other people's opinion as to how best to move forward, since no one really knows for sure all the consequences, good or bad.

#115 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

Yes Sister....and I think there is far more truth and hope in the soul by soul progress which results in far greater and concentric-rippling effects on the whole than we might imagine. Meaning, that the bottom up responses to drama, suffering, and challenge bring true progress resulting from the top down pressures and missteps of leadership which hardly appear progressive at all. That the action is less important than the reaction or response. Consider that Nebadon has already realized over 1000 times the benefits as losses by the rebellion. Can rebellion itself BE good? No. But the response mechanism (and I am beginning to believe this is a real and actual mechanism) completely obliterates the evil which brought or triggered the response mechanism. Jesus taught us to respond to sin, and not passively or by acceptance. We are linked to a power that is best demonstrated to us by the function of evil and sin, perhaps the only function of any value they might possess - the power of response.....for every action there is an equal and opposite counter action in physics - but in the law of love and reciprocity response, the reaction has 10 or 100 or 1000 or 10,000 times the power than the trigger. Love + time = irresistable inevitabilities.

Every action comes to meet and expose the law of unintended consequences (where consequences = results, not a negative necesarily). This requires experiential wisdom to think through and even that does not prevent the unintended from invading the process or results. But short sighted and selfish thinking certainly brings a response by the agents and agencies of Father which overcome the short term in the long run. In classic chicken and egg conundrum - does progress bring wisdom or does wisdom bring progress? Well, both of course. But progress comes, like its own force of nature, using the grotesque and the gruesome to move toward the sacred and righteous. Amazing, truly amazing.

Perhaps the first personal progression in discerning planetary progress is the elimination of fear and the gaining of confidence in Father while letting go of the ego's need to "fix" the problems perceived which may or may not be any real problem at all.....as many seem to "fix" themselves and without our collective angst. I agree that we might wish to consider how we might best exemplify and embrace the examples we have been provided of how sane, mature, faithful, loving, and service minded mortals and morontials from all around us live and the examples the celestials provide to better harmonize our minds, our lives, and our communities. I cannot change or even challenge the national or global power structure of "might makes right" or the cultural issue of "me first....and right now" - I can only choose differently and more wisely the purity contrasted by the insanity of secular materialism.

I am heartened by many developments of great change around us, but to Rick's original post..... "The gain motive is a mighty civilizer when augmented by the desire to serve.... P.787 - 4"

The "augmentation" is now becoming democratized and every community in many countries is now awash in freely donated time, product, and cash so perhaps we are just beginning to witness how profit can transform into service. Now consider the communication and transportation elements in the quotes from Rick. The globe is shrinking at its fastest pace EVER. Don't need one language anymore....we have instant translation devices which are becoming user sensitive and intuitive in phrasing, overcoming a lack of education and eloquence by the "speaker". We have vehicles that require no drivers (including the big jets flying today) and for profit industry is about to take over space in its race to serve the demand of all here at home. Science is knocking down doors and opening new ones unkown a generation ago. I remain optimistic, beyond hopeful while knowing full well that mortal or material catastrophe may befall myself, those I love, and our beloved Urantia. I simply find it foolish to ignore what has happened....and the obvious acceleration of it happening.....since Newton and Guetenberg shared an apple under the tree. Or since my grandparents got "electrification". Or I got my first transistor radio and watching mankind step onto the moon. We witness progress, miraculous and unexplainable progress. There will be peace on earth my lovely friends. Indeed, I live in peace already as I hope for you all. Peace. ;)

Edited by Bradly aka/fanofVan, 06 February 2013 - 05:03 PM.

Peace be upon you."

#116 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:36 PM

If a pilgrim can be compared to a tadpole, I wonder if civilization cannot be as well? Behold the mighty tadpole:




Posted Image




I'm thinking Urantia is 6-8 weeks old on this scale. Note the sprouting appendiges of transportation, communication, commerce, and science, all prior to frog-hood. Perhaps our world is about to take its first breath of air? Do any truly think we won't get there? Are not getting there? Oh we of little faith. We'll be hoppin' before you know it. But, of course, we are only truly in charge of ourself, eh? While I await my first apendage perhaps, I doubt not its eventual, if not eminent arrival. :D

Edited by Bradly aka/fanofVan, 06 February 2013 - 06:19 PM.

Peace be upon you."

#117 Raymond

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:46 PM

Dear Bradly your posts make me smile both inwardly and outwardly. Thanks for these great perceptions. I really enjoy.

#118 Rick Warren

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:34 PM

If a pilgrim can be compared to a tadpole, I wonder if civilization cannot be as well? Behold the mighty tadpole:




Posted Image




I'm thinking Urantia is 6-8 weeks old on this scale. Note the sprouting appendiges of transportation, communication, commerce, and science, all prior to frog-hood. Perhaps our world is about to take its first breath of air? Do any truly think we won't get there? Are not getting there? Oh we of little faith. We'll be hoppin' before you know it. But, of course, we are only truly in charge of ourself, eh? While I await my first apendage perhaps, I doubt not its eventual, if not eminent arrival. :D


Agree, 6-8 weeks. :lol:

#119 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:07 PM

(1203.1) 110:0.1 THE endowment of imperfect beings with freedom entails inevitable tragedy, and it is the nature of the perfect ancestral Deity to universally and affectionately share these sufferings in loving companionship.


So it is and forever must be. One problem modern medicine seems to exemplify is we can get very wrapped up in the treating of symptoms, often creating new symptoms for additional "treatment", ad nauseum times shortened life expectancy. I wonder how best to bring cure to the causes or elimination of the poisens? And I wonder how many symptoms will disappear when their cause responds to actual cure? We are surrounded by evidence of these symptoms but therein lies that which poisens our world.

(1204.2) 110:1.4 Adjusters are interested in, and concerned with, your daily doings and the manifold details of your life just to the extent that these are influential in the determination of your significant temporal choices and vital spiritual decisions and, hence, are factors in the solution of your problem of soul survival and eternal progress. The Adjuster, while passive regarding purely temporal welfare, is divinely active concerning all the affairs of your eternal future.

(1204.3) 110:1.5 The Adjuster remains with you in all disaster and through every sickness which does not wholly destroy the mentality. But how unkind knowingly to defile or otherwise deliberately to pollute the physical body, which must serve as the earthly tabernacle of this marvelous gift from God. All physical poisons greatly retard the efforts of the Adjuster to exalt the material mind, while the mental poisons of fear, anger, envy, jealousy, suspicion, and intolerance likewise tremendously interfere with the spiritual progress of the evolving soul.
Peace be upon you."

#120 Coop

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:53 PM

132:4.8 Meeting a poor man who had been falsely accused, Jesus went with him before the magistrate and, having been granted special permission to appear in his behalf, made that superb address in the course of which he said: “Justice makes a nation great, and the greater a nation the more solicitous will it be to see that injustice shall not befall even its most humble citizen. Woe upon any nation when only those who possess money and influence can secure ready justice before its courts! It is the sacred duty of a magistrate to acquit the innocent as well as to punish the guilty. Upon the impartiality, fairness, and integrity of its courts the endurance of a nation depends. Civil government is founded on justice, even as true religion is founded on mercy.” The judge reopened the case, and when the evidence had been sifted, he discharged the prisoner. Of all Jesus’ activities during these days of personal ministry, this came the nearest to being a public appearance.


132:5.13 And so, my friend, if you would be a faithful and just steward of your large fortune, before God and in service to men, you must approximately divide your wealth into these ten grand divisions, and then proceed to administer each portion in accordance with the wise and honest interpretation of the laws of justice, equity, fairness, and true efficiency; albeit, the God of heaven would not condemn you if sometimes you erred, in doubtful situations, on the side of merciful and unselfish regard for the distress of the suffering victims of the unfortunate circumstances of mortal life. When in honest doubt about the equity and justice of material situations, let your decisions favor those who are in need, favor those who suffer the misfortune of undeserved hardships.”


132:5.15 1. As steward of inherited wealth you should consider its sources. You are under moral obligation to represent the past generation in the honest transmittal of legitimate wealth to succeeding generations after subtracting a fair toll for the benefit of the present generation. But you are not obligated to perpetuate any dishonesty or injusticeinvolved in the unfair accumulation of wealth by your ancestors. Any portion of your inherited wealth which turns out to have been derived through fraud or unfairness, you may disburse in accordance with your convictions of justice, generosity, and restitution. The remainder of your legitimate inherited wealth you may use in equity and transmit in security as the trustee of one generation for another. Wise discrimination and sound judgment should dictate your decisions regarding the bequest of riches to your successors.


132:5.17 3. As long as men choose to conduct the world’s business by trade and barter, they are entitled to a fair and legitimate profit. Every tradesman deserves wages for his services; the merchant is entitled to his hire. The fairness of trade and the honest treatment accorded one’s fellows in the organized business of the world create many different sorts of profit wealth, and all these sources of wealth must be judged by the highest principles of justice, honesty, and fairness. The honest trader should not hesitate to take the same profit which he would gladly accord his fellow trader in a similar transaction. While this sort of wealth is not identical with individually earned income when business dealings are conducted on a large scale, at the same time, such honestly accumulated wealth endows its possessor with a considerable equity as regards a voice in its subsequent distribution.


132:5.20 6. If you chance to secure wealth by flights of genius, if your riches are derived from the rewards of inventive endowment, do not lay claim to an unfair portion of such rewards. The genius owes something to both his ancestors and his progeny; likewise is he under obligation to the race, nation, and circumstances of his inventive discoveries; he should also remember that it was as man among men that he labored and wrought out his inventions. It would be equally unjust to deprive the genius of all his increment of wealth. And it will ever be impossible for men to establish rules and regulations applicable equally to all these problems of the equitable distribution of wealth. You must first recognize man as your brother, and if you honestly desire to do by him as you would have him do by you, the commonplace dictates of justice, honesty, and fairness will guide you in the just and impartial settlement of every recurring problem of economic rewards and social justice.




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