Jump to content


Photo

Urantian and Catholic?


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:18 PM

Recently, I've been returning to the Catholic faith in which I was raised. I've been reading the Urantia Book for almost two years, and I see no radical conflict between the Urantia Book and my Catholic faith. In fact, I believe that that the Urantia Book is more compatible with Catholicism than with conservative Protestantism.

Since Vatican II, the catechism has defended the right to conscience of the individual on religious matters. The Catholic Church's tradition of continuing revelation leaves open the possibility that the Urantia Book is a form of God's revelation for today. While avoiding medieval debates about transubstantiation, The Urantia Book says that Christ is present in the sharing of the Eucharist. The Catholic veneration of Mother Mary can be interpreted as a representation of the Mother Spirit. The Urantia Book's teaching on an evolving universe, God the Supreme, the Thought Adjuster, and the Kingdom of God on earth being the ultimate goal of human evolution can almost thought for thought be found in the writings of Teilhard de Chardin, a Catholic priest who wrote before the Urantia Book was published.

When taking all of this into consideration, one can see how the Urantia Book can enrich, rather than destroy, the faith of a sincere Catholic. I choose to make a distinction between the institution, which is made up of men and dates more or less to Constantine's Christianization of the Roman Empire, and the essence of the Catholic faith, which goes back for 2000 years. When I attend Catholic mass, it is not to worship the Vatican but to be in communion with over a billion Catholics today and with Catholics throughout history in celebration of the Eucharist.

This article is helpful on this topic: http://www.truthbook...questionID=3402

Edited by Howard509, 18 November 2012 - 03:19 PM.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#2 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 314 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Zagreb, Croatia
  • Interests:Technology, Travel, Photography, Urantia book, science, hiking, nature

Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:50 PM

Hello,

I'm living in catholic country. I had problem with catholic church because I tthink it is double faced.
Promoting Jesuses faith and again making typical materialistic mistakes.
Nevertheless I like going to the mass but sometimes when they start preaching in anti Jesus style
I just go berserk :)
So good and so bad
I also think it is the religion which is closest to the truth but also
with lot of space for improvement.

Peace
Peace be upon you

#3 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:52 PM

I also think it is the religion which is closest to the truth but also
with lot of space for improvement.


I can agree with that. If I were to choose a religion, it would be either Buddhism or Catholicism.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#4 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:18 PM

The Revelation is not here to destroy any's faith...just misconceptions and ignorance and their companion prejudice. One should be able to practice most any monotheism "faithfully" so long as the conflicts do not destroy one's ability to participate and serve the insititution or the congregation....which has nothing to do with the Revelation. I have so chosen before, if not recently. You have to learn to let dogma win out over truth though. There are far too many conflicts between text and most christian denominations, and especially catholic, to begin a list....but this does not dimminish the need many have for a more formalized and participatory ceremony of faith expression.....and, you didn't ask for such a list. Best wishes.
Peace be upon you."

#5 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:43 PM

To me, it boils down as to whether one believes in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I may not believe in the papacy or the immaculate conception or a whole host of other doctrines, but I believe in the Eucharist. There are too many Eucharistic miracles throughout history and in the present to just say that it's the "mind at mischief."


youtube.com/watch?v=N6SH93arrIE


youtube.com/watch?v=Y_BOYgIoaTM&feature=fvwrel


youtube.com/watch?v=8zTikIjz2l8&feature=fvwrel


We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#6 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 314 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Zagreb, Croatia
  • Interests:Technology, Travel, Photography, Urantia book, science, hiking, nature

Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:15 AM

i do beleive that catholic church knows about TUB teachings and deliberatly ignores it because their whole system is in danger.
but i just receive the best of what they offer and pray that they change their ways.

peace
Peace be upon you

#7 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:47 PM

Yes Pike....the reluctance of priests to accept reality is a notorious truth, eh? And yet our Revelation gives value to such social ballast, traditions do stablize progress in their way. And that which brings congregations together to share faith and truth in experience also, in and of itself, can uplift the individual religionist to new perceptions and perspective in the spirit, if not in the letter, of those faithful ones. The Revelation says that the Spirit of Truth restates the Gospel to each within every generation and those, whether within or outside of the christian cocoon, have the same voice bringing us all the same truths to lead us forward into progress. The question is not whether one can be a loyal Urantian and a faithful religionist of a congregation of shared beliefs; the question is whether one can be faithful within a proscribed institution and true to themselves and the truths not shared by the congregation, eh? For the Revelation does not limit the religious experience....but our beliefs and experience therein may limit our ability to grow in spirit for one incapable of balancing the two points of view. This should not be so difficult a task. Hypocracy, prejudice, and limited context and perspective are human issues within mind, not inherent shortcomings of religion. Can one transcend the falsehoods to share the truths within the same vehicle? We better be able to....for our mind is itself such a vehicle, no?
Peace be upon you."

#8 Nelson G

Nelson G

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 148 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Pianos fast cars and airplanes.

Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:21 PM

My two cents: The only hope for progress of the world's evolutionary religions is religionists that look for what is right about the different religions as opposed to what is wrong with them.
Over my lifetime I have a belly full of what is wrong with them. The truth seekers will turn this around.
Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

#9 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:19 PM

i do beleive that catholic church knows about TUB teachings and deliberatly ignores it because their whole system is in danger.
but i just receive the best of what they offer and pray that they change their ways.

peace


Teilhard de Chardin was way ahead of his time for his evolutionary spirituality and was even persecuted for it. Now, there are buildings named after him at Catholic colleges. I think the Catholic faith is somewhat ready for certain teachings in the Urantia Book, it's just a matter of whether or not the Urantia Book itself could be accepted as a new revelation.

Edited by Howard509, 19 November 2012 - 02:20 PM.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#10 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 November 2012 - 04:07 PM

The Hail Mary is a beautiful prayer that provides comfort and assurance that Mary is praying for us. When people think that praying to Mary amounts to worship, they are forgetting the original definition of "pray," which means to supplicate, not to worship. If there is anyone to whom I would ask for intercessory prayer, it would be the mother of Jesus.

Another thing I've been thinking about as a Catholic is how I can confess in the creed that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary when the Urantia Book teaches she was not a virgin. Is it possible that, if she was conceived by Joseph, that she was a virgin at the moment of conception, that it only took that one time for her to become pregnant with Jesus? The prophecy in Isaiah says that a virgin would bear a child, not specifically that it would be a form of asexual reproduction.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#11 JR Sherrod

JR Sherrod

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 204 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, Nevada
  • Interests:I am a Lapidary, and Jewelry Artist & Designer. I love reading the Urantia Book, science fiction, and speculative non-fiction. I am a Choral Singer. I was, at various times in my past, a Military Policeman, Police Instructor, Computer Programmer/Analyst, and Post-secondary technical instructor. I love astronomy, aeronautice & aerospace, and planes & rockets of all types. I bicycle and walk for fun and fitness. I am an Advanced Toastmaster - Bronze. I write Autobiographic Self-Help, and Speculative Non-Fiction.

Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:32 PM

Another thing I've been thinking about as a Catholic is how I can confess in the creed that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary when the Urantia Book teaches she was not a virgin. Is it possible that, if she was conceived by Joseph, that she was a virgin at the moment of conception, that it only took that one time for her to become pregnant with Jesus? The prophecy in Isaiah says that a virgin would bear a child, not specifically that it would be a form of asexual reproduction.



Hi Howard509!

I think that the twisting of material found within TUB, so that it allows for wrong religious dogma, is likely to retard spiritual growth. I know this is strictly my own opinion; but wouldn't that be like forever pushing a bicycle everywhere you go, instead of getting on it and pedaling?

I face similar questions within myself about the church I attend, and their obviously contrary beliefs. I rationalize that I am "...haunting the old neighborhood..." so as to be able to introduce TUB to those few folks whose own preparations within the church have made them ripe for the FER. I do not seriously believe any of their primative, erroneous, or outright wrong beliefs any longer; nor do I teach those same beliefs. It is a delicate dance, but fun nonetheless!

Peace to you, brother!

Edited by JR Sherrod, 27 November 2012 - 02:33 PM.

Ah! To be host to God, Himself; and to be enriched beyond measure by that incomprehensible treasure!

#12 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:48 PM

Hi Howard509!

I think that the twisting of material found within TUB, so that it allows for wrong religious dogma, is likely to retard spiritual growth. I know this is strictly my own opinion; but wouldn't that be like forever pushing a bicycle everywhere you go, instead of getting on it and pedaling?

I face similar questions within myself about the church I attend, and their obviously contrary beliefs. I rationalize that I am "...haunting the old neighborhood..." so as to be able to introduce TUB to those few folks whose own preparations within the church have made them ripe for the FER. I do not seriously believe any of their primative, erroneous, or outright wrong beliefs any longer; nor do I teach those same beliefs. It is a delicate dance, but fun nonetheless!

Peace to you, brother!


Leslie Weatherhead, one of the source authors of the Urantia Book, tried to explain the doctrine of the virgin birth from a historical perspective, in such a way that would appeal to both traditional religionists and historical scholarship.

The Rev. Ian Paisley, now Lord Bannside, denounced Weatherhead in a 1969 sermon as "the man that said that Jesus Christ was the bastard son of Zechariah (John the Baptist's father) - and Mary, who was a prostitute of the temple.... That is about as vile a thing as anybody could say." He called Weatherhead "an arch-apostate", whose place was "in hell".[8]
However, Weatherhead had in fact made every effort to present Mary as a very pure and sincere (if immature) young maiden—who had simply interpreted the Angel's Annunciation as a divine instruction to go and stay for three months with her cousin's husband, Zechariah—and that was when Jesus was conceived.[9]
Weatherhead regards it as significant that the Gospels contain absolutely no record of Jesus mentioning that his mother had conceived him without a human father.[9]
http://en.wikipedia....ad#Virgin_Birth


We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#13 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:24 AM

Again with the declaratives!! Matthew Block "theorizes" Whitehead "may" have wriiten a book that was "perhaps" paraphrased as a source author and Block does so with many provisos....unlike yourself. It is your opinion that according to someone else's opinion Whitehead may have been a sourced author.....it is not a fact. Indeed the whole theory is quite flawed for Block claims that every time the Revelation says "restated in modern terms" that the words and teachings of the Master thereafter are paraphrasings of human authors. Interesting claim. For of all the parts to attribute to humanity, it would seem quotes of the Master would be the least likely for paraphrasing, not the Master, but some book about Him. The whole premise is flawed and even if it were not, your declarative conclusion certainly is flawed.....again. As is your new definition of virgin, trying to reconcile the new wine in the old skin.....no one who has had sex (yes, even once and only once) is considered a virgin. While it is fine to find value in attending a congregation, it is tricky business to try and merge or morph the Revelation with creeds and dogmas of christianity or any other religion. One must recognize the conflicts and contradictions and then either reconcile them in mind so that the differences are acceptable to mind or they are not which may preclude the practicing of two faiths.

However and in fact, each religionist with a brain and individuality, performs such reconciliation continuously, no? Since spirit progress and truth discovery is so personal and unique, all who progress in faith within any dogma/creed must continue to fit greater truths overlayed on former, and lesser truths. Believers in our Revelation should be able to co-exist and fellowship with a wide spectrum of religions and religionists....as our Master certainly did.

Edited by Bradly aka/fanofVan, 28 November 2012 - 08:25 AM.

Peace be upon you."

#14 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:11 AM

An Anglican church recently moved near my apartment. They're one of those more conservative Anglican churches that broke off of the Episcopal church over its ordination of gays, etc. Since they practice open communion, I am thinking about paying them a visit. I basically see Anglican as another form of Catholic. I've long struggled with doctrines like papal infallibility and papal supremacy, so it's nice to know there's a form of Catholic that doesn't require belief in these doctrines. Anglicans are liturgical and sacramental, so I might feel at home there.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#15 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:21 AM

An Anglican church recently moved near my apartment. They're one of those more conservative Anglican churches that broke off of the Episcopal church over its ordination of gays, etc. Since they practice open communion, I am thinking about paying them a visit. I basically see Anglican as another form of Catholic. I've long struggled with doctrines like papal infallibility and papal supremacy, so it's nice to know there's a form of Catholic that doesn't require belief in these doctrines. Anglicans are liturgical and sacramental, so I might feel at home there.


No disrespect, but what does this have to do with the Urantia Book?

#16 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

No disrespect, but what does this have to do with the Urantia Book?


Did you read the beginning of the thread?

Recently, I've been returning to the Catholic faith in which I was raised. I've been reading the Urantia Book for almost two years, and I see no radical conflict between the Urantia Book and my Catholic faith. In fact, I believe that that the Urantia Book is more compatible with Catholicism than with conservative Protestantism.

Since Vatican II, the catechism has defended the right to conscience of the individual on religious matters. The Catholic Church's tradition of continuing revelation leaves open the possibility that the Urantia Book is a form of God's revelation for today. While avoiding medieval debates about transubstantiation, The Urantia Book says that Christ is present in the sharing of the Eucharist. The Catholic veneration of Mother Mary can be interpreted as a representation of the Mother Spirit. The Urantia Book's teaching on an evolving universe, God the Supreme, the Thought Adjuster, and the Kingdom of God on earth being the ultimate goal of human evolution can almost thought for thought be found in the writings of Teilhard de Chardin, a Catholic priest who wrote before the Urantia Book was published.

When taking all of this into consideration, one can see how the Urantia Book can enrich, rather than destroy, the faith of a sincere Catholic. I choose to make a distinction between the institution, which is made up of men and dates more or less to Constantine's Christianization of the Roman Empire, and the essence of the Catholic faith, which goes back for 2000 years. When I attend Catholic mass, it is not to worship the Vatican but to be in communion with over a billion Catholics today and with Catholics throughout history in celebration of the Eucharist.

This article is helpful on this topic: http://www.truthbook...questionID=3402


We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#17 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:30 PM

So again, how does the church you feel comfortable in and the dogmas you accept relate to the study of the Urantia Book?

#18 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

For many people, belonging to a church is important to a life of faith, and for many who've read the Urantia Book, they've had to reconcile their involvement with a church and their belief in the Urantia Book.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#19 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

I consider myself catholic with a small "c". I don't always agree with the Vatican and I don't believe that it's exclusively the church that Jesus founded and yet there are so many good things I like about the Catholic faith. I believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, I love Catholic liturgical music, I believe the Catholic educational system is a better alternative to public schools, I feel a need for communal prayer and worship, etc.


We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#20 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:11 PM

My father's side of the family is Eastern Orthodox and I attended an Orthodox church for a number of years. I might start going to church there again. I appreciate the liturgical and mystical traditions and, according to the Urantia Book, Eastern Christianity is closer to the faith of Jesus. The ascension scheme as described in the Urantia Book is very similar to the Eastern Orthodox teaching on theosis or divinization.

http://urantia-book....tianity_urantia

Edited by Howard509, 17 February 2013 - 06:14 PM.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users