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#81 Alina

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:38 PM

Hi all! :)

boom. I add this important quote from Jesus, is linked with my last two post, and of course with this issue, with which the relationship is direct.


(1103.3) 100:7.15 His courage was magnificent, but he was never foolhardy. His watchword was, “Fear not.” His bravery was lofty and his courage often heroic. But his courage was linked with discretion and controlled by reason. It was courage born of faith, not the recklessness of blind presumption. He was truly brave but never audacious.




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#82 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:08 PM

Evidence that the conflict or "struggle" between good and evil is, indeed, in the mind of each and not any struggle "between" any two minds or beings.

(606.2) 53:5.6 “There was war in heaven; Michael’s commander and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer, Satan, and the apostate princes); and the dragon and his rebellious angels fought but prevailed not.” This “war in heaven” was not a physical battle as such a conflict might be conceived on Urantia. In the early days of the struggle Lucifer held forth continuously in the planetary amphitheater. Gabriel conducted an unceasing exposure of the rebel sophistries from his headquarters taken up near at hand. The various personalities present on the sphere who were in doubt as to their attitude would journey back and forth between these discussions until they arrived at a final decision.

(606.3) 53:5.7 But this war in heaven was very terrible and very real. While displaying none of the barbarities so characteristic of physical warfare on the immature worlds, this conflict was far more deadly; material life is in jeopardy in material combat, but the war in heaven was fought in terms of life eternal.

(609.1) 53:7.13 With the arrival of Lanaforge the archrebels were dethroned and shorn of all governing powers, though they were permitted freely to go about Jerusem, the morontia spheres, and even to the individual inhabited worlds. They continued their deceptive and seductive efforts to confuse and mislead the minds of men and angels. But as concerned their work on the administrative mount of Jerusem, “their place was found no more.”

(609.2) 53:7.14 While Lucifer was deprived of all administrative authority in Satania, there then existed no local universe power nor tribunal which could detain or destroy this wicked rebel; at that time Michael was not a sovereign ruler. The Ancients of Days sustained the Constellation Fathers in their seizure of the system government, but they have never handed down any subsequent decisions in the many appeals still pending with regard to the present status and future disposition of Lucifer, Satan, and their associates.

(609.3) 53:7.15 Thus were these archrebels allowed to roam the entire system to seek further penetration for their doctrines of discontent and self-assertion. But in almost two hundred thousand Urantia years they have been unable to deceive another world. No Satania worlds have been lost since the fall of the thirty-seven, not even those younger worlds peopled since that day of rebellion.

Whatever once was or may come to pass, those of us on Urantia now have nothing to fear. I don't feel we ever did. For we have that which is needed within to withstand anything or anyone from without, no? Our ascension is never (read never) jeopordized by others nor can it be accelerated by others. We are responsible. The belief in anything else is a surrender and abandonment of our free will and its source. We must accept our responsibility to ourself and find the truth in love and service....or we perish by our own hand/mind/choices. Peace.
Peace be upon you."

#83 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 03:25 AM

Hello all,

Here is one example of fear I expirienced few months ago..
I was standing in the field road and noticed that from high grass from the right side dear is coming directly in my direction.
I could see him, but he couldn't see me. Emediatly I had adrenalin rush. I was ready to react. My fear was at that moment that dear will frighten when he see me so I guess that was survival anxiaty, but on the other hand I wasn't frightend for my existance while it allready ashurred.
So I was more affraid for the animal then for my material existance.
A year ago I would be terrified but today after crises has past in few seconds I just carry on.

There are many kinds of fear, but ALL of them becomes irrelevant once you realize that our mission goes on no metter what happens to our material bodies.

When our time comes we will know.
Our TA is taking care of that.

Peace
Peace be upon you

#84 -Scott-

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 02:30 PM

I think part of the paradigm that we face on this world is that in our own minds we are convinced that we are victims of our past. We are constantly replaying past tragedies in our minds which we feel victim too. We also tend to use our spiritual gifts to locate errors in the world. We are constantly looking for mistakes. So much of our problems are curable just by realizing that we are not victims. We are not victims to a natural death, and we are not victims of our past. We can choose otherwise. We can choose to live otherwise.

1725.4) 155:1.3 If you desire to enter the kingdom, why do you not take it by spiritual assault even as the heathen take a city they lay siege to? You are hardly worthy of the kingdom when your service consists so largely in an attitude of regretting the past, whining over the present, and vainly hoping for the future. Why do the heathen rage? Because they know not the truth. Why do you languish in futile yearning? Because you obey not the truth. Cease your useless yearning and go forth bravely doing that which concerns the establishment of the kingdom.


This message was given to those who believe in the teachings, and yet find themselves whining. Obviously I think we can all relate to this. But I think the message that Jesus gives is that even as you are a small tadpole you can literally overcome anxieties, fears and worries by obeying the truth. Even as little 7th circler tadpoles you can do this. As a 7th circler we can obey the truth and this allows us to have a relationship to eternity even as 7th circlers.

We can't let the world tell us that its impossible to not know and obey the truth. Jesus is saying that you can, know truth, obey truth, and be liberated by truth. :) We know that if begin to form a relationship to these teachings that our mind will begin to use those intuitions in which "it is sad to record that few humans are using". Which will give us that objective viewpoint where we can be absolutely sure.

Edited by boomshuka, 20 October 2012 - 02:35 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#85 JR Sherrod

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 02:37 PM

This message was given to those who believe in the teachings, and yet find themselves whining. Obviously I think we can all relate to this. But I think the message that Jesus gives is that even as you are a small tadpole you can literally overcome anxieties, fears and worries by obeying the truth. Even as little 7th circler tadpoles you can do this.

You know don't let the world tell you that can't do it. Jesus is saying that you can :)


Boomshuka, you are so right!

"If you desire to enter the kingdom, why do you not take it by spiritual assault even as the heathen take a city they lay siege to? Cease your useless yearning and go forth bravely doing that which concerns the establishment of the kingdom."

I don't know where this quote is in TUB, but it is now going to be up on my desk, where I can see it every day!

"JR"
Ah! To be host to God, Himself; and to be enriched beyond measure by that incomprehensible treasure!

#86 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 06:13 PM

I have concluded that every mind is completely protected from any and all other influences that are not directly and divinely connected to God, cosmic mind, or Spirit - no minds can be invaded or controlled or influenced by any other mind (current Urantia status at least if not always and everywhere?) and no non-material beings engage in personal combat either. This means that all heavenly conflict and rebellion was a mind by mind and within mind conflict and choice which means that ALL "struggle" between good and evil is within each mind of each being - ONLY!! As a former debater, I can only wish I could have seen and heard the debate between Satan and Gabriel as they "struggled" to bring the minds of many to their perspective until EACH mind made its choice by individual will.

The rebellion is a false reason for any mortal or morontial fear of any kind. And any fear from or about it is simply misplaced and indicates a lack of faith in God's power and plan. We are safe from all others....so let us return to the more human forms of anxiety. Love the part about whiners and the apostles perpetual, near keystone cops comedy, egoistic "need" to be the chosen one among the chosen ones chosen from among the chosen ones! Hahaha. How very human. Impatience is another trait of the immature. But fear? Well it is crippling and prevents making much progress, no? TUB says ignorance and prejudice are great obstacles.....are not BOTH found within fear? The first step to eliminate fear is accept responsibility for it....and the power to overcome it. Our anxieties are our own. Deal with it and do so without blame or need for someone else to cure it....it is not real, it is not true, it is in the way. Get over it and move forward. It's just stinkin' thinkin'. Peace.

Edited by fanofVan, 20 October 2012 - 06:18 PM.

Peace be upon you."

#87 Alina

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 06:39 PM

I think part of the paradigm that we face on this world is that in our own minds we are convinced that we are victims of our past. We are constantly replaying past tragedies in our minds which we feel victim too. We also tend to use our spiritual gifts to locate errors in the world. We are constantly looking for mistakes. So much of our problems are curable just by realizing that we are not victims. We are not victims to a natural death, and we are not victims of our past. We can choose otherwise. We can choose to live otherwise.

This message was given to those who believe in the teachings, and yet find themselves whining. Obviously I think we can all relate to this. But I think the message that Jesus gives is that even as you are a small tadpole you can literally overcome anxieties, fears and worries by obeying the truth. Even as little 7th circler tadpoles you can do this. As a 7th circler we can obey the truth and this allows us to have a relationship to eternity even as 7th circlers.

We can't let the world tell us that its impossible to not know and obey the truth. Jesus is saying that you can, know truth, obey truth, and be liberated by truth. :) We know that if begin to form a relationship to these teachings that our mind will begin to use those intuitions in which "it is sad to record that few humans are using". Which will give us that objective viewpoint where we can be absolutely sure.



Hi all!
Thus boomshuka!
Life changes, everything is perceived it feels really different when we identify with the Reality.
Although the instinct is always and if we run a hungry lion, surely we ran, we will not be sitting waiting for us to reach, Fear not stupid! :D (You see I do not speak of imaginary fears or :) fears product of ... fear of fear...)
Now, if we have no alternative, we go elsewhere, the "citadel of the spirit" in which we are always safe.
The instinct is always to preserve the physical body, and to preserve our survival.
It is not just the mere primitive instinct. The instinct is linked to the intuitive. because for me, also evolves.All humans have it working in our mind
Acting on the mechanical mind and in even earlier ages.does not mean that then disappears. Intuition is absorbed and and power when operated the seven helpers .
The Wisdom and Worship embraces all.
The seven helpers cease to function in our mind only when we do not need because we have completed the seven psychic circles.

Something is in these quotes:

(402.3) 36:5.6 1. The spirit of intuition — quick perception, the primitive physical and inherent reflex instincts, the directional and other self-preservative endowments of all mind creations; the only one of the adjutants to function so largely in the lower orders of animal life and the only one to make extensive functional contact with the nonteachable levels of mechanical mind.


(1096.4) 100:2.7 Jesus portrayed the profound surety of the God-knowing mortal when he said: “To a God-knowing kingdom believer, what does it matter if all things earthly crash?” Temporal securities are vulnerable, but spiritual sureties are impregnable. When the flood tides of human adversity, selfishness, cruelty, hate, malice, and jealousy beat about the mortal soul, you may rest in the assurance that there is one inner bastion, the citadel of the spirit, which is absolutely unassailable; at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit of the eternal God.


(1127.5) 102:8.1 The highest evidence of the reality and efficacy of religion consists in the fact of human experience; namely, that man, naturally fearful and suspicious, innately endowed with a strong instinct of self-preservation and craving survival after death, is willing fully to trust the deepest interests of his present and future to the keeping and direction of that power and person designated by his faith as God. That is the one central truth of all religion...



Greetings,

Alina
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#88 -Scott-

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:47 PM

Hey Alina. Those mind adjutants are interesting in a lot of ways. There is sort of a double meaning with all of them, and what I mean by that is if we live like animals, "not born of the holy spirit" Ie. those who do not obey the truth. We are essentially using these mind spirits in a more animalistic way. I will use this mind spirit to give an example of what I mean. The spirit of counsel. The u.b mentions that the higher animals would be able to utilize this mind spirit. Yet the u.b explains to us that animals function only at the "motor level" of behaviour. So they cannot possibly be functioning higher than what their instincts tell them. Yet this mind spirit when utilized as a spiritual ministry is described as a social urge or the "ability of will creatures to harmonize with their fellows". Obviously an animal cannot do this.

402.7) 36:5.10 5. The spirit of counsel — the social urge, the endowment of species co-operation; the ability of will creatures to harmonize with their fellows; the origin of the gregarious instinct among the more lowly creatures.


I believe when we begin to be born of spirit we actually begin to utilize these mind adjutants as spiritual ministries, as opposed to just using them as mindal energy systems. So instead of having a lot of zeal, we get this ability to worship. Many people have no concept of worship, yet this is being described as a level of thinking in which we can utilize. As far as fear, if we have been born of this holy spirit and are building this temple within us in which these mind spirits are wrapped around we can have a defence against anxiety, fear and worry that becomes almost impenetrable. Obviously the challenge is building this heart or core up from a animal origin self to a higher spiritual selfhood. But with the u.b it should be easy enough :).

I kind of opened up a few different topics there, lol I have trouble organizing my thoughts, so that may be hard to follow haha. I just noticed you reference this quote. And I wanted to point out that we do not have to use this spirit of intuition in soley a fight or flight like manner. If we are born of spirit we can use this mind spirit as the "spirit of intuition" instead of OMG I need to preserve myself at all costs, kind of like how a animal would use this adjutant. Instead of using it just for flight or fight, we can utilize it as real intuition.....if we want to obey the truth and be born of spirit that is...


402.3) 36:5.6 1. The spirit of intuition — quick perception, the primitive physical and inherent reflex instincts, the directional and other self-preservative endowments of all mind creations; the only one of the adjutants to function so largely in the lower orders of animal life and the only one to make extensive functional contact with the nonteachable levels of mechanical mind.


.

Edited by boomshuka, 20 October 2012 - 07:51 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#89 Alina

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 08:27 PM

:) Yes ... Yes ... I agree boom, you did great, that's what I, with my poor English, I meant!

I'm happy because you have understood the main idea of this ​​issue about fears and derivatives.

Love

Alina
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#90 -Scott-

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 09:23 PM

Yea, thanks Alina, just trying to make sense of this vast and complex revelation one day at a time :). I really like this quote you posted, one thing that caught my eye was that it says "to a god-knowing believer", and " at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit of the eternal god". I can look at those quotes and honestly say I am not "god-knowing". I am a god-believing human being, but I am not yet there. I know readers may think I am being to hard on myself, but I think its important to be honest in our own development. I think to often us readers read something and we say "oh yea that is me", when in reality we are just one of the majority of the world, wrestling with a animal origin self. I get the sense from readers that sometimes there is a tendency to take what they see in the u.b and automatically think that they are "there", and that this often gets in the way. Obviously with some readers, there has been a tendency to even attribute themselves as 3rd or 1st circlers after reading the u.b a few times. Which probably is the worst thing we could possibly do as readers.

But it is comforting to know that when I do become "god-knowing" that I will be so sure of my souls safety within the care of the mystery monitor that I will be able to conquer all my fears, even the fear of death :). That is something I can look forward to in this life time :) and I do feel like I will be there one day :).

1096.4) 100:2.7 Jesus portrayed the profound surety of the God-knowing mortal when he said: “To a God-knowing kingdom believer, what does it matter if all things earthly crash?” Temporal securities are vulnerable, but spiritual sureties are impregnable. When the flood tides of human adversity, selfishness, cruelty, hate, malice, and jealousy beat about the mortal soul, you may rest in the assurance that there is one inner bastion, the citadel of the spirit, which is absolutely unassailable; at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit of the eternal God.


Edited by boomshuka, 20 October 2012 - 09:31 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#91 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 12:08 AM

Hi Boom,

Are you affraid of death?
If you are, don't be. Just wanting to do God's will is enough for this part of your journey.
Don't be hard to yourself.
Me personaly don't want to classify myself to any circle. I leave the judgment to someone else.


Peace

Peace be upon you

#92 Bonita

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 06:01 AM

Fear, because God engineered it to function as a mechanism for self-protection, tends to force the focus of the whole being on the self. This type of focus is necessary in a world where safety of the physical self is not guaranteed. But over and over, revelation teaches us that this instinct of self-protection must give way to self-forgetfulness. What a huge leap to make in the animal world!

Obviously this type of extraordinary change in focus from self-protection to self-forgetting cannot happen overnight, nor can it happen with just strenuous thinking. It's a transformative event of soul evolution where we learn the difference between our bodies and our souls, our physical environment and our cosmic citizenship.

The fact that the higher adjutant-mind spirits struggle to draw us away from our pure animal instinct of fear and change it to awe is the first step. The spirits of worship and wisdom moves us toward a higher vision, a less self-focused existence. But it takes revelation to move us further. We are meant to develop true spiritual insight, and it is the Holy Spirit who prepares the human mind for the realization of something beyond the self, to enable the birth, within the human mind, of the awareness of an other-than-self entity who indwells us. We are meant to transfer fear and awe to this other-than-self within. The human race is still evolving toward this realization, one person at a time. If the "great fear" lives within you, what is there to fear? Instead, it becomes a time to search this inner power, to fall in love and to forget oneself in the process.

Jesus gave us the beatitudes. They were meant to help train the mind for this very process of conquering fear and discovering that our vindicator lives within us, to change our focus away from the self and toward God. It's hard to be both afraid and happy at the same time unless you really enjoy being miserable, in which case, you'll remain self-focused.


"Happy are the poor in spirit, the humble, for theirs are the treasures of the kingdom of heaven.
"Happy are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled.
"Happy are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
"Happy are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
"Happy are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
"Happy are they who weep, for they shall receive the spirit of rejoicing.
"Happy are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
"Happy are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.
"Happy are they who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
"Happy are you when men shall revile you and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven." (140:3.3-11)

#93 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 08:40 AM

Like Boom, I have no clue of my circle status and cannot ascribe any specific moment of "rebirth" nor can I claim to be God "knowing". Yet, there is much evidence of spiritual progress in my life, relationships, and state of mind. I see more around me and I see more clearly and I minister to others and serve many as I pass by from love and not duty. I am less judgemental while looking for meanings and motives within what I witness in others choices, priorities, fears, and relationships. But while I feel progress on the "innocent as dove" front - the "wise as a serpent" or discernment thing is a challenge. But I also do not know, nor particularly care, which circle I'm floundering in today moving forward two steps and back one step (on good days) but certain in both direction and ground gained within my mind, soul, and Spirit identification. I gave up material attachments long ago, indeed that was when TUB found me....I was free....as in nothing left to lose freedom.

This might be a good point on discussing what it means to be "born" of the Spirit or to be God "knowing". Can we measure progress? Should we? How do we progress into Spirit and morontial mind?

I think there are many ways to seek progress. The first is to believe it is possible. Next, believe you want to try. For the mind will not go or do what the mind has no belief in or commitment of will to. Seeking is active....believing is activating. Boom and I obviously believe and are acting by our belief as seekers to grow into Spirit and understanding. Yet we have no certainty as to status or achievement. But when one is "committed" to God and love and believe in His plan, purpose, and power and actively seeks truth, beauty, and goodness......we are on the right bus, the ascension journey has begun, eh? There are front seats and back seats and buses before us and behind us, but the Seekers bus is destiny bound once aboard.

There are many quotes that teach us the truth that facts and beliefs which are true but not acted on are useless and far inferior to acting in faith with false facts and primitive beliefs, no? Faith is rewarded by progress. Faith within truth is more progressive. Fears should dimminish slowly by progress experience and increasing confidence through love acts. All such progress seems to be predicated on the "self" content as does the anxiety level, which we have determined here is also based and focused on self. Self is the focus of fear and material attachments and ignorance and prejudice. Obviously, self identity and self control are monster issues for progress in Spirit. The mind choice and the will commitment must predate the actual effort to change and the effort must be constant until that time when what once took will becomes habit and what took great focus and effort becomes natural and is now accomplished from a viewpoint of experience and prior success.

I pointed out earlier the roles I think hope and courage have in bridging from belief by faith to experience in the Spriit. One must find sufficient hope and muster adequate courage to change from doubts and anxieties by volitional will and action - sure to bring errors and blunders by inexperience.....this is called learning, eh? We are given time in which to experience free will choice and we are given direction for our motives and our strategies and our purpose and our destiny by the Revelation. Our guide book to ourself and the mysteries of our many blessings was demonstrated for us by the Master. My christian days never told me I should actually be like Him, nor did I ever feel someone could or ever would. Now I know, I can be like Him.....THAT was why He came here.....a little show and tell about the potential within us all. Thanks to all for posting and sharing here. Peace.

(63.4) 5:1.6 If mortal man is wholeheartedly spiritually motivated, unreservedly consecrated to the doing of the Father’s will, then, since he is so certainly and so effectively spiritually endowed by the indwelling and divine Adjuster, there cannot fail to materialize in that individual’s experience the sublime consciousness of knowing God and the supernal assurance of surviving for the purpose of finding God by the progressive experience of becoming more and more like him.
Peace be upon you."

#94 Alina

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:26 AM

Yea, thanks Alina, just trying to make sense of this vast and complex revelation one day at a time :). I really like this quote you posted, one thing that caught my eye was that it says "to a god-knowing believer", and " at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit of the eternal god". I can look at those quotes and honestly say I am not "god-knowing". I am a god-believing human being, but I am not yet there. I know readers may think I am being to hard on myself, but I think its important to be honest in our own development. I think to often us readers read something and we say "oh yea that is me", when in reality we are just one of the majority of the world, wrestling with a animal origin self. I get the sense from readers that sometimes there is a tendency to take what they see in the u.b and automatically think that they are "there", and that this often gets in the way. Obviously with some readers, there has been a tendency to even attribute themselves as 3rd or 1st circlers after reading the u.b a few times. Which probably is the worst thing we could possibly do as readers.

But it is comforting to know that when I do become "god-knowing" that I will be so sure of my souls safety within the care of the mystery monitor that I will be able to conquer all my fears, even the fear of death :). That is something I can look forward to in this life time :) and I do feel like I will be there one day :).


Good Day to all!
I understand boom! :)
But remember something that says the same book, (I have no time to seek the quote) but said that when one is seeking God means that God has already found us! It's an incentive right?
I also understand when you refer to the swings or our small momentary doubts, I talked this issue,long with a priest friend of my family, I remember talking about the crisis of faith that they also passed, it is normal and oddly an excuse, it's not.It also helps our growth, because in that push and pull of our thoughts, if you really want God, then reborn, stronger and with more faith than before and a little wiser, safer. and a great joy to feel the progress.
To me this means that there is movement, (as the universe) that there are concerns in the mind to be filled, filled after spending a period, as if testing, yet serves to decant what we had wrong.
Obviously there are people who have no faith, that faith spoken of the UB, and still in a dogmatic belief, still reach its teachings dogmatize, (this is something that belongs to the old beliefs, not the religion of the spirit, not a religion of personal experience that Jesus wants for us) but although it is something that should not be done, everyone should do their way, but the static, we know that no longer reaches,intelecualizar with great erudition, less.
Dogmatizar, intellectualize what we learn in Revelation is wasteful and would not meet with it divine purpose.The experience is personal, for me the issue is moving, but really, and do not hesitate to leave out the ways, methods, old beliefs and accepted as soon possible to the teachings of the fifth Revelation, like children, with an open mind.
It is also true that just reading is not enough, everyone knows if Truth is progressing or if, as I said before self-deceiving, or not, when clouded by the lush erudition, and still in the same place with a different rhetoric.
Let me clarify, just in case, not everyone is like, I'm just counting the cases I see these situations inevitably eh?
Nor is it easy and remember that we are the pioneers.It is true that, in addition to either personal
revelations, or received as superior beings this case, save us ages and ages in our spiritual growth, but this provided there is in us a real mobilization internal, we literally back, shaking and all these
experiences have to be lived, not be put into words. If there are no movements in our minds and feelings, I think it's still missing something.
It's like everything changed around us, what mattered before does not matter, and what was important for me became so intrascente-
Well, boom there Nucho to say anyway, but right now I'm with little time to write.
New culture, new methods,new everything good, good while we had before, not everything is disposable! Without fanatizar nothing!
Regarding the quote, you have to get there, is the goal, the ideal, remember that most of what Jesus told his disciples actually said so himself (another quote to look, I know that is)

1096.4) 100:2.7 Jesus portrayed the profound surety of the God-knowing mortal when he said: “To a God-knowing kingdom believer, what does it matter if all things earthly crash?” Temporal securities are vulnerable, but spiritual sureties are impregnable. When the flood tides of human adversity, selfishness, cruelty, hate, malice, and jealousy beat about the mortal soul, you may rest in the assurance that there is one inner bastion, the citadel of the spirit, which is absolutely unassailable; at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to
the indwelling spirit of the eternal God.



Sorry forum friends who wrote before me, but I have not yet read your messages! :huh:

This by now, my day is busy to a meeting. :D

Love

Alina
***

#95 Bonita

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:35 AM

This might be a good point on discussing what it means to be "born" of the Spirit or to be God "knowing". Can we measure progress? Should we? How do we progress into Spirit and morontial mind?



Can we measure spiritual progress or growth? All growth is unconscious, but Jesus gave us a spiritual yardstick:

p1642:2 146:3.6 "While you cannot observe the divine spirit at work in your minds, there is a practical method of discovering the degree to which you have yielded the control of your soul powers to the teaching and guidance of this indwelling spirit of the heavenly Father, and that is the degree of your love for your fellow men. This spirit of the Father partakes of the love of the Father, and as it dominates man, it unfailingly leads in the directions of divine worship and loving regard for one's fellows.

The only problem with this yardstick is that so few really understand love. There is a continuum of love as Jesus outlined in the 6 levels of the Golden Rule, beginning with loving others like you love yourself up to the level of divine love which is loving others like God the Father loves them. So many people reach the 2nd level of the Golden Rule, the level of feelings, and think they have arrived. Few realize that true second milers never give up until they make it to level 6, the spiritual level. TUB laments that there are so few second-milers ( p2084:5 195:10.5)

As for knowing God, plenty of people have this experience. Remember that divine things have to be loved in order to be known. ( p1118:4 102:1.1) If you're in love with God, you know him. All true love comes from him, and your ability to know him is commensurate with your willingness to give love in return. To be God-knowing means a relationship of giving and receiving love. It's a powerhouse of spiritual joy. And all true love is outgoing.(p1739:06) Love cannot be stored up and put into the love-bank for later usage; it doesn't grow by being buried and protected. If your love is selfless and outgoing, and you're never worried about how much you can get, but how much you can give, then you know God. All altruism comes from him. Without him all you have is the false kingdom of good, the lower levels of the Golden Rule. (p40:4 2:5.12)

p1095:05 Spiritual progress is predicated on intellectual recognition of spiritual poverty coupled with the self-consciousness of perfection-hunger, the desire to know God and be like him, the wholehearted purpose to do the will of the Father in heaven.

p24:6 1:2.5 Those who know God have experienced the fact of his presence; such God-knowing mortals hold in their personal experience the only positive proof of the existence of the living God which one human being can offer to another. The existence of God is utterly beyond all possibility of demonstration except for the contact between the God-consciousness of the human mind and the God-presence of the Thought Adjuster that indwells the mortal intellect and is bestowed upon man as the free gift of the Universal Father.

#96 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:51 AM

Journies are measured by mile markers and way stations and elevation and topography. One can tell by the map the progress, no? There are such "mile markers" given for our consideration:

(1108.3) 101:3.4 Through religious faith the soul of man reveals itself and demonstrates the potential divinity of its emerging nature by the characteristic manner in which it induces the mortal personality to react to certain trying intellectual and testing social situations. Genuine spiritual faith (true moral consciousness) is revealed in that it:


(1108.4) 101:3.5 1. Causes ethics and morals to progress despite inherent and adverse animalistictendencies. *
(1108.5) 101:3.6 2. Produces a sublime trust in the goodness of God even in the face of bitter disappointment and crushing defeat.
(1108.6) 101:3.7 3. Generates profound courage and confidence despite natural adversity and physical calamity.
(1108.7) 101:3.8 4. Exhibits inexplicable poise and sustaining tranquillity notwithstanding baffling diseases and even acute physical suffering.
(1108.8) 101:3.9 5. Maintains a mysterious poise and composure of personality in the face of maltreatment and the rankest injustice.
(1108.9) 101:3.10 6. Maintains a divine trust in ultimate victory in spite of the cruelties of seemingly blind fate and the apparent utter indifference of natural forces to human welfare.
(1108.10) 101:3.11 7. Persists in the unswerving belief in God despite all contrary demonstrations of logic and successfully withstands all other intellectual sophistries.
(1108.11) 101:3.12 8. Continues to exhibit undaunted faith in the soul’s survival regardless of the deceptive teachings of false science and the persuasive delusions of unsound philosophy.
(1108.12) 101:3.13 9. Lives and triumphs irrespective of the crushing overload of the complex and partial civilizations of modern times.
(1108.13) 101:3.14 10. Contributes to the continued survival of altruism in spite of human selfishness, social antagonisms, industrial greeds, and political maladjustments.
(1108.14) 101:3.15 11. Steadfastly adheres to a sublime belief in universe unity and divine guidance regardless of the perplexing presence of evil and sin.
(1108.15) 101:3.16 12. Goes right on worshiping God in spite of anything and everything. Dares to declare, “Even though he slay me, yet will I serve him.”






<a name="U100_2_0">2. Spiritual Growth



(1095.5) 100:2.1 Spiritual development depends, first, on the maintenance of a living spiritual connection with true spiritual forces and, second, on the continuous bearing of spiritual fruit: yielding the ministry to one’s fellows of that which has been received from one’s spiritual benefactors. Spiritual progress is predicated on intellectual recognition of spiritual poverty coupled with the self-consciousness of perfection-hunger, the desire to know God and be like him, the wholehearted purpose to do the will of the Father in heaven.

(1095.6) 100:2.2 Spiritual growth is first an awakening to needs, next a discernment of meanings, and then a discovery of values. The evidence of true spiritual development consists in the exhibition of a human personality motivated by love, activated by unselfish ministry, and dominated by the wholehearted worship of the perfection ideals of divinity. And this entire experience constitutes the reality of religion as contrasted with mere theological beliefs.

(1095.7) 100:2.3 Religion can progress to that level of experience whereon it becomes an enlightened and wise technique of spiritual reaction to the universe. Such a glorified religion can function on three levels of human personality: the intellectual, the morontial, and the spiritual; upon the mind, in the evolving soul, and with the indwelling spirit.

(1096.1) 100:2.4 Spirituality becomes at once the indicator of one’s nearness to God and the measure of one’s usefulness to fellow beings. Spirituality enhances the ability to discover beauty in things, recognize truth in meanings, and discover goodness in values. Spiritual development is determined by capacity therefor and is directly proportional to the elimination of the selfish qualities of love.

The more hope and courage are displaced by experience and faith, the more obvious the progress. Soul mass affects gravity force and attraction, progress accelerates and sublime confidence becomes the more natural state of the maturing mind. Peace.
Peace be upon you."

#97 -Scott-

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 12:09 PM

Here is another quote we can use as a yardstick.

(1931.4) 178:1.13 When a kingdom believer is called upon to serve the civil government, let him render such service as a temporal citizen of such a government, albeit such a believer should display in his civil service all of the ordinary traits of citizenship as these have been enhanced by the spiritual enlightenment of the ennobling association of the mind of mortal man with the indwelling spirit of the eternal God. If the unbeliever can qualify as a superior civil servant, you should seriously question whether the roots of truth in your heart have not died from the lack of the living waters of combined spiritual communion and social service. The consciousness of sonship with God should quicken the entire life service of every man, woman, and child who has become the possessor of such a mighty stimulus to all the inherent powers of a human personality.


Essentially it is saying that we should be far superior civil servants than unbelievers, as a result of our spiritual enchancements. FOV you mentioned what it would be like to be born of the holy spirit. I am quite sure that this holy spirit becomes a tangible experience within us, in that we can directly feel it. I think if you are like me and you do not feel this holy spirit directly than we are probably both not born of the spirit. Which is fine because I think few mortals are. However we are both as Alina said, moving in the right direction because we are searching. That makes us good. Goodness for us is just a matter of direction, we are honestly trying to move towards god, by using the 5th epochal revelation, so in turn god has already found us.

As far as the animal origin self. I picture it like an hour-glass. The bottom part of the hour glass as our animal-origin self, and the top part of the hour glass is our higher self-hood, our higher identity (the one that the adjuster will be able to copy over as our morontia identity) in the next life. I think the challenge is, how do I begin to transfer the seat of my identity from that lower animal origin material selfhood to my higher morontia soul. I believe that this higher self is where the "heart" of human beings are, this is that core. Obviously the heart is not in that animal origin self, etleast I do not believe it is. I think one of the other interesting aspects of this higher self, is not only is the core heart of it contain the temple in which god lives, but it also is where we can begin to find our own personality. Personality is described in the u.b as this aspect of us that transcends even spirit. The personality also exists in the personality circuit of the universal father, :). So there is another avenue in which we can find the father. I think that as we begin to be temple builder's or we begin to build this higher self, our personality can begin to integrate more and more with our identity, and we can become more real. Obviously our personality will not identity with a animal origin self.

Anywhos, I think that this transferring of identity has to do with persuing the truth of the revelation where ever it may be. Even if that means we have to give up our longstanding ideas, preconceived notions and former beliefs. :)

Edited by boomshuka, 21 October 2012 - 01:08 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#98 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 04:24 PM

Nice description Boom.....now place a swinging balance point between the lower half of the hour glass, filled with our humanity and mortal experience, and the upper half, filled choice by choice and act of faith by act of love over our mortal and morontial lives. As the upper half (soul) is slowly filled by mind, the glass tilts a little. And a little more until spirit gravity overcomes temporal restraints/weight until the hour glass fully inverts into a new cycle of progress. ;)

I am not so certain as you Boom as to being or not being born in the spirit....I think I am.....and you too....but I have no real evidence. I have felt uplifted of spirit, and confirmed by spirit, and "known" to spirit, but these feelings are more like I'm in their presence but I don't know that they are in mine. Hard to explain. But I don't "converse" or clearly "hear" God's voice. I am certain of Him though and have known His blessings and His confirmations in my "heart" as well. Thus my query....how does one know if they are in the Spirit, born of the Spirit, and am guided by God in this ascension?

I consider the list of 12 attributes listed above to a religionist's progress as a list of skills or proficiencies that we can each grade or measure ourselves against to identify those areas which need the most consideration and focus for change. Each of us would "score" differently per proficiency and in total, eh? We then work to improve our skills and experiences for each, especially seeking balance in the total score by progress in each score.

The first step in assessing any strategic plan of action is determine resistance or obstacles.....like attachments to temporal/material things, and like anxieties, and fearfullness, and pride, and prejudice, and ego domination of mind - the self in self-centered or self-directed or self-love. This process identifies that which needs purging, or controlling, or re-directing to reduce the "noise and clutter" of the mind to better pursue the new and better priorities and motives behind our thinking and choosing. So early on, we must focus on two fronts - elimination of obstacles and pursuit of love/faith experiences. But, over time there is less and less to eliminate or lay aside, eh? By this process, we grow and become, we seek potential and find it by the act and effort of seeking. Seeking is rewarded, no? Especially seeking within love and without fear.

FEAR NOT !! Let us hear more about gaining progress and momentum....from wherever we are now. What are more fruits of the Spirit that demonstrate the spiritizing adventure of ascenders. Peace. B)

Edited by fanofVan, 21 October 2012 - 04:27 PM.

Peace be upon you."

#99 Bonita

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:20 AM

I am not so certain as you Boom as to being or not being born in the spirit....I think I am.....and you too....but I have no real evidence. I have felt uplifted of spirit, and confirmed by spirit, and "known" to spirit, but these feelings are more like I'm in their presence but I don't know that they are in mine. Hard to explain. But I don't "converse" or clearly "hear" God's voice. I am certain of Him though and have known His blessings and His confirmations in my "heart" as well. Thus my query....how does one know if they are in the Spirit, born of the Spirit, and am guided by God in this ascension?


This conversation about being born of the spirit deserves its own thread. Should we start one?

And to your inquiry above, the only way to assess the fact that you are a faith-son, born of the spirit, is by the fruits you produce. You must pass on the "divine genes", if I may use such a metaphor. Here are the fruits of the spirit taken from pp 381& 2054. All of these fruits are the basis of the 12 attributes you listed previously.
  • Loving service
  • Unselfish devotion
  • Courageous loyalty
  • Sincere fairness
  • Enlightened honesty
  • Confiding trust
  • Merciful ministry
  • Unfailing goodness
  • Forgiving tolerance
  • Enduring peace
  • Love
  • Joy
  • Long suffering
  • Gentleness
  • Faith
  • Meekness
  • Temperance

The first step in assessing any strategic plan of action is determine resistance or obstacles.....like attachments to temporal/material things, and like anxieties, and fearfullness, and pride, and prejudice, and ego domination of mind - the self in self-centered or self-directed or self-love. This process identifies that which needs purging, or controlling, or re-directing to reduce the "noise and clutter" of the mind to better pursue the new and better priorities and motives behind our thinking and choosing.


How do you square your approach with the fact that Jesus was against self-analysis and self-examination?

140:8.27 p1583:01 The three apostles were shocked this afternoon when they realized that their Master's religion made no provision for spiritual self-examination. All religions before and after the times of Jesus, even Christianity, carefully provide for conscientious self-examination. But not so with the religion of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus' philosophy of life is without religious introspection. The carpenter's son never taught character building; he taught character growth, declaring that the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. But Jesus said nothing which would proscribe self-analysis as a prevention of conceited egotism.

#100 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:20 AM

Good idea!! There is much I "know" and don't that doesn't square with the Master I'm afraid. Thus my query. I can't even conceive, really, of what the quote means - building vs. growth. But let's discuss on new thread - Born of the Spirit - and allow this issue of fear to remain open for further discussions and posts about the source, function, and impediments of animal fear, human anxiety, and fearfullness. Thanks to all participants here, my first Topic. I grow in your light and by your love. Peace.


:rolleyes:
Peace be upon you."




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