Jump to content


Photo

True Religion, Where The Ancient Greeks Failed?


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#1 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:54 AM

.


Dear Forum Friends,

Something Melchizedek said in Paper 98:2 kept lingering in mind, about the very fundamentals of the way we think, act and correct course these days. Do you think this paragraph points to a more or less unconscious but widely practiced diversion from the divine will, something that is prevalent in the self analysis trend, no?:


...The Greeks, however, did engage in a magnificent intellectual advancement. They had begun to master fear and no longer sought religion as an antidote therefor, but they did not perceive that true religion is the cure for soul hunger, spiritual disquiet, and moral despair. They sought for the solace of the soul in deep thinking--philosophy and metaphysics. They turned from the contemplation of self-preservation--salvation--to self-realization and self-understanding.... P.1078 - 6



Aren't most people these days focused on self understanding and improvement, as opposed to seeking Father's input? No blame to establish, but this self focus surely diverts from the simpler method Jesus and the UB authors constantly point to--just seek his will in everything, as you pass by. This relieves me from constant and habitual self analysis at least (even if I do have internal debates about exactly what his will is, and how to achieve "self forgetfulness"!).

Of course, with "true religion" comes experimentation with the divine love at the center of our being, that inward looking and outward feeling of just wanting to serve Father and fellows, it does seem to be the light and delight of life, even true religion.

The Greeks did contribute to Urantia's history an amazing legacy gained from the wisdom of deep and sincere thinking, on which much of modern society is founded. And the Greeks did finally embrace the religion about Jesus (thanks much to Paul), these Andite descendants living on 1400 islands not so far from Eden.

Do you think the ideal of true religion and the goals of modern self improvement can ever be reconciled?

.

#2 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:03 AM

Fascinating topic Rick! I'm confused though. Are you interested in exploring Greek philosophy or modern psychology . . . or both?

Either way, the essence of the quote above is meant to point out the potential imbalance created by a philosophy of living. The Greeks put too much emphasis on human intellect; they stressed knowledge and wisdom. They also valued beauty, but failed to unify the whole of human experience, leaving out the all important spiritual experience of the personality.

Self-realization is actually a laudable goal; that's what the psychic circles are all about. So too, are wisdom and beauty commendable. What the quote is pointing out is that it makes a difference on how you go about attempting to achieve these things. Self-realization requires a balanced approach which includes a personal relationship with God.

p507:5 44:7.4 These divine qualities are perfectly and absolutely unified in God. And every God-knowing man or angel possesses the potential of unlimited self-expression on ever-progressive levels of unified self-realization by the technique of the never-ending achievement of Godlikeness—the experiential blending in the evolutionary experience of eternal truth, universal beauty, and divine goodness.

#3 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:30 PM

Looking forward to this thread too! Thought I'd post some historical text on the Greeks:

(895.1) During the decline of culture in Mesopotamia there persisted for some timea superior civilization on the islands of the eastern Mediterranean. *

(895.2) About 12,000 B.C. a brilliant tribe of Andites migrated to Crete. This was the only island settled so early by such a superior group, and it was almost two thousand years before the descendants of these mariners spread to the neighboring isles. This group were the narrow-headed, smaller-statured Andites who had intermarried with the Vanite division of the northern Nodites. They were all under six feet in height and had been literally driven off the mainland by their larger and inferior fellows. These emigrants to Crete were highly skilled in textiles, metals, pottery, plumbing, and the use of stone for building material. They engaged in writing and carried on as herders and agriculturists.

(895.3) Almost two thousand years after the settlement of Crete a group of the tall descendants of Adamson made their way over the northern islands to Greece, coming almost directly from their highland home north of Mesopotamia. These progenitors of the Greeks were led westward by Sato, a direct descendant of Adamson and Ratta.

(895.4) The group which finally settled in Greece consisted of three hundred and seventy-five of the selected and superior people comprising the end of the second civilization of the Adamsonites. These later sons of Adamson carried the then most valuable strains of the emerging white races. They were of a high intellectual order and, physically regarded, the most beautiful of men since the days of the first Eden.

(895.5) Presently Greece and the Aegean Islands region succeeded Mesopotamia and Egypt as the Occidental center of trade, art, and culture. But as it was in Egypt, so again practically all of the art and science of the Aegean world was derived from Mesopotamia except for the culture of the Adamsonite forerunners of the Greeks. All the art and genius of these latter people is a direct legacy of the posterity of Adamson, the first son of Adam and Eve, and his extraordinary second wife, a daughter descended in an unbroken line from the pure Nodite staff of Prince Caligastia. No wonder the Greeks had mythological traditions that they were directly descended from gods and superhuman beings.

(895.6) The Aegean region passed through five distinct cultural stages, each less spiritual than the preceding, and erelong the last glorious era of art perished beneath the weight of the rapidly multiplying mediocre descendants of the Danubian slaves who had been imported by the later generations of Greeks.

(895.7) It was during this age in Crete that the mother cult of the descendants of Cain attained its greatest vogue. This cult glorified Eve in the worship of the “great mother.” Images of Eve were everywhere. Thousands of public shrines were erected throughout Crete and Asia Minor. And this mother cult persisted on down to the times of Christ, becoming later incorporated in the early Christian religion under the guise of the glorification and worship of Mary the earth mother of Jesus.

(895.8) By about 6500 B.C. there had occurred a great decline in the spiritual heritage of the Andites. The descendants of Adam were widespreadly dispersed and had been virtually swallowed up in the older and more numerous human races. And this decadence of Andite civilization, together with the disappearance of their religious standards, left the spiritually impoverished races of the world in a deplorable condition.

(896.1) By 5000 B.C. the three purest strains of Adam’s descendants were in Sumeria, northern Europe, and Greece. The whole of Mesopotamia was being slowly deteriorated by the stream of mixed and darker races which filtered in from Arabia. And the coming of these inferior peoples contributed further to the scattering abroad of the biologic and cultural residue of the Andites. From all over the fertile crescent the more adventurous peoples poured westward to the islands. These migrants cultivated both grain and vegetables, and they brought domesticated animals with them.

(896.2) About 5000 B.C. a mighty host of progressive Mesopotamians moved out of the Euphrates valley and settled upon the island of Cyprus; this civilization was wiped out about two thousand years subsequently by the barbarian hordes from the north.

(896.3) Another great colony settled on the Mediterranean near the later site of Carthage. And from north Africa large numbers of Andites entered Spain and later mingled in Switzerland with their brethren who had earlier come to Italy from the Aegean Islands.

(896.4) When Egypt followed Mesopotamia in cultural decline, many of the more able and advanced families fled to Crete, thus greatly augmenting this already advanced civilization. And when the arrival of inferior groups from Egypt later threatened the civilization of Crete, the more cultured families moved on west to Greece.

(896.5) The Greeks were not only great teachers and artists, they were also the world’s greatest traders and colonizers. Before succumbing to the flood of inferiority which eventually engulfed their art and commerce, they succeeded in planting so many outposts of culture to the west that a great many of the advances in early Greek civilization persisted in the later peoples of southern Europe, and many of the mixed descendants of these Adamsonites became incorporated in the tribes of the adjacent mainlands.


(67.3) All religions teach the worship of Deity and some doctrine of human salvation. The Buddhist religion promises salvation from suffering, unending peace; the Jewish religion promises salvation from difficulties, prosperity predicated on righteousness; the Greek religion promised salvation from disharmony, ugliness, by the realization of beauty; Christianity promises salvation from sin, sanctity; Mohammedanism provides deliverance from the rigorous moral standards of Judaism and Christianity. The religion of Jesus is salvation from self, deliverance from the evils of creature isolation in time and in eternity.
(67.4) The Hebrews based their religion on goodness; the Greeks on beauty; both religions sought truth. Jesus revealed a God of love, and love is all-embracing of truth, beauty, and goodness.
(67.5) The Zoroastrians had a religion of morals; the Hindus a religion of metaphysics; the Confucianists a religion of ethics. Jesus lived a religion of service. All these religions are of value in that they are valid approaches to the religion of Jesus. Religion is destined to become the reality of the spiritual unification of all that is good, beautiful, and true in human experience.
(67.6) The Greek religion had a watchword “Know yourself”; the Hebrews centered their teaching on “Know your God”; the Christians preach a gospel aimed at a “knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ”; Jesus proclaimed the good news of “knowing God, and yourself as a son of God.” These differing concepts of the purpose of religion determine the individual’s attitude in various life situations and foreshadow the depth of worship and the nature of his personal habits of prayer. The spiritual status of any religion may be determined by the nature of its prayers.
(67.7) The concept of a semihuman and jealous God is an inevitable transition between polytheism and sublime monotheism. An exalted anthropomorphism is the highest attainment level of purely evolutionary religion. Christianity has elevated the concept of anthropomorphism from the ideal of the human to the transcendent and divine concept of the person of the glorified Christ. And this is the highest anthropomorphism that man can ever conceive.
(67.8) The Christian concept of God is an attempt to combine three separate teachings:


(67.9) 1. The Hebrew concept — God as a vindicator of moral values, a righteous God.
(67.10) 2. The Greek concept — God as a unifier, a God of wisdom.
(68.1) 3. Jesus’ concept — God as a living friend, a loving Father, the divine presence.


Perhaps this is a lesson on the reality that truth is everywhere.....sometimes the religionist needs to follow Jesus' lead (as presented in the 5Th Revelation) to take the best of all and unify the diverse elements into both a philosophy of living and a revelation of love and the Father? Peace.
Peace be upon you."

#4 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:36 PM

Do you think the ideal of true religion and the goals of modern self improvement can ever be reconciled?


How exactly are you defining modern self improvement? Do you mean self-help programs by which people can learn things that improve their life; such as diet, cooking, health care, care of a home, exercise, etc.? Or do you mean self-improvement programs designed to affect human behavior by changing outlook, mode of thinking, reaction to various emotions or conflicts, etc.?

Some of these self-help programs that increase knowledge I think are very useful. I taught myself many different things that way. And on occasion, I've even learned to think differently after being inspired by someone else's writing on a topic, and certainly TUB itself has become a source of self-help for me as well. But in regards to real, genuine self-improvement, quality improvement of the whole person, I don't think any program is worth a hill of beans unless it includes God in a very big way.

Let's be honest. Most people just want to be happy, and as far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing as happiness without God and the effort required to become more like him.

#5 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:37 PM

Yes, both Bonita. But more especially was I feeling around for the lines between self realization, self improvement and self forgetfulness, which you started. Good that fanofVan already provided the Greek background and the revealed truth lesson. :)

#6 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:48 PM

.

Of course I can't speak for the whole world Bonita, but as you know over the last 75 years here in the US, self help/self improvement has become an enormous industry, secular, prison, business and religious. Yeah, I too benefited from more than one self help book/seminar during the 70s and 80s. Some of them were God centered, some not. We agree the good ones are, but certainly not every one is good.

Apparently the angels work on themselves!

...Cherubim and sanobim, like seraphim and all other orders of spirit beings, are continuously engaged in efforts at self-improvement.... P.422 - 5



.

#7 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:21 PM

Of course I can't speak for the whole world Bonita, but as you know over the last 75 years here in the US, self help/self improvement has become an enormous industry, secular, prison, business and religious. Yeah, I too benefited from more than one self help book/seminar during the 70s and 80s. Some of them were God centered, some not. We agree the good ones are, but certainly not every one is good.


Well, if I go ahead and say the things I'd like to say about this, I'll get myself into a heap'o trouble. I'm a fire-breathing dragon when it comes to exposing the evils of humanism, and unfortunately, much of the self-improvement industry is misguided by it. Which gets me back to God-centeredness. What is so scary about God that has so many deleting him from their internal self-improvement files? Maybe if there was an ap for God that you could download on your iphone, that would walk you through your day . . . or maybe a good angel-bad angel ap to help you make decisions. No really, don't get me started, my cynicism on this topic is titanic. Instead, let's talk about a spiritual philosophy of living that's guaranteed to make you happy. That's what my wannabe book is supposed to be about . . . bringing love to life. I guess it is a self-help book, so probably not a good thing now that I think about it. No wonder I never seem to be able to finish it.

#8 Alina

Alina

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UNIVERSO
  • Interests:*

Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:29 PM

Hi to all! :)

Agree Bonita.
I'm actually a little tired of all these self-help methods, I once I attended a group, but I had the luck that included God. Before the class read a phrase from different religions At least it was something,
But lately it seems as a trend or a fashion, and most seek only the satisfaction of be well, be happy, looking to make "dreams" but there is nothing spiritual (not saying that some do not have) and what I see some people become more self-centered.Egocentric
Also because of this need, there have been many opportunistic giving courses and the truth is I do not seem trustworthy. Sometimes it makes me sad to see how people cheat.
But people do not realize that what they want, not that, and feel let down time and so they go in search of another new course and so...What they do not realize is that are palliatives and that the main problem is the lack of spirituality, lack of True Religion.
The rest is something else, it can be good too, but not the root of many problems.


Greetings,

Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 19 September 2012 - 03:01 PM.


#9 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:53 PM

A few thoughts: First, as a one time and deep student of Plato, Aristotle, and their more mathematical brethern of those ancient times, my opinion is that few today (if ever) can be accused of critical thinking, logic, reason, finding the lies within truth or the truth within evidence or experience. The media, politics, priorities, and popular opinions of today reveal both a narrow perspective and very superficial conclusions/beliefs delivered through the "thinking" process. I am constantly confounded by and disappointed in most attempts at discussion, discovery, or arguement in this faddish, sound bite society we are in today. Thinking is easy with disciplines and process that simply require objectivity and the setting aside of preconceptions and the prejudice which protects those from greater knowledge, understanding, and truth.

This is no different within most so-called religionists. I say so-called because true religion is about "becoming" - more and deeper and clearer in our perceptions and conclusions. If it is not simplistic, it is rejected by and large. I am unsure if this is the nature of humanity or a result of the prosperity decline effect. My people are/were farm folk and not highly educated (although I doubt most college graduates today could pass my grandpa's 8th grade final which I have a copy of) or ambitious....but deep feelers and thinkers nontheless, as the seasons, and nature, and the threat of starvation seem to nurture. They lived in faith of God's truth discovered in and revealed by His creation and it's beauty and bounty and the daily bread challenges, finding peace and harmony therein which was shared in joyous family. Life was not easy and yet truth was "chewed" on every day and no question was taboo to seek an answer of either reason or faith. People do not really want self help that requires much effort or persistance. We're pill junkies and don't mind taking pills for the pills for the supposed ills which define us.

A secret I think is the love factor....the other than self love that is. What is it? What's its source? What's its result? Happiness can only truly come through love which must lead to its source. Too many think happiness is a mood or a cycle rather than a blissful contentment of truth reality...and a result of love (not attachment either....codependent attachments are another thing that gets confused for the real deal). And then there's the other crowd....devout religionists who seek God without seeking or finding His gift of love first, filled with fears and angers and bigotries for which the only seek verifications and justifications. Do not tell me you have found or know God without love, happiness, contentment, and the service purpose....it just ain't so. Grannie always said, "If you are worried, you're not praying enough; if you're praying enough, what's the worry?"

This sounds judgemental and cranky. Sorry. I'm no big brain or saint either one and my ascendency will not be a quick one I know. But Rick, I guess you touched a nerve in me too!! Peace. <_<

PS - Forgot to say.....these are some of the reasons I love you people so much. I am very blessed to hear your voices and learn therefrom. Nothing shallow or simple going on here. :wub:

Edited by fanofVan, 19 September 2012 - 02:55 PM.

Peace be upon you."

#10 Alina

Alina

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UNIVERSO
  • Interests:*

Posted 19 September 2012 - 03:23 PM

A question: Do you find certain resemblance between this time and that time Hellenic? :unsure:


(1078.4) 98:1.6 The Olympian gods illustrate man’s typical anthropomorphism. But the Greek mythology was more aesthetic than ethic. The Greek religion was helpful in that it portrayed a universe governed by a deity group. But Greek morals, ethics, and philosophy presently advanced far beyond the god concept, and this imbalance between intellectual and spiritual growth was as hazardous to Greece as it had proved to be in India.


Thanks,

Alina
***

#11 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 19 September 2012 - 03:57 PM

Sister Alina - I do not find it so up here in the land of "he who dies with the most toys - wins!". Indeed, I think one of the lessons to learn here is it's the imbalance that disrupts the potential of truth discovery. Today's morals, ethics, and philosophy are hardly "advanced"....the "me first and right now" self/cultural indulgence is overweighting the balance. I do find great hope within the secular and religious responses to local disasters and regional upheavels. But then there is Bosnia and Rwanda and other horrific examples of our collective incompetency or lack of will....until it is too late. I am not a pessimist (my glass is full even when empty - haha) and I firmly believe in and can find many examples of love within humanity and planetary progress signs - if inconsistant in form and duration, eh?

So many today (especially in the self help crowd) are so focused on "self" determination in very physical and material ways of measurement - we're taught how to push back against the demands and hustle and bustle that we will not set aside or harmonize....we just learn how to juggle MORE. The very pace of the life we choose creates a chaos that defies attention, focus, learning, meanings, values, and relationships.....the only things we should actually BE considering and learning from. Too many do far too much they feel they must to get what will relieve them (it is hoped) of that which they already do too much of.....we choose distraction from our life of distraction. But truth and goodness only lie within interaction....but not within chaos and distraction from chaos. I am being depressing again!! This is not my problem. I have harmony and love and peace and time to discover more of the same....took a long time to get here. In fact, my wife and I are so in bliss, we sometimes feel a little guilty and other times a little paranoid...."the vicisitudes are coming! the vicisitudes are coming!" - God's tests for learning and reinforcing to cement the lessons already learned. Now, never fear, I did not say life was easy - those we love keep us on our toes and in the trenches to be sure!

Prior threads reveal this truth: God's universe and plan requires balance to best approach its potential and its purpose. So much and so many in motion, perpetually growing....but only according to the progress of each of the many, diverse elements within His creation.....each element is important and none can be left untended or unnurtured to progress. Those civilizations which failed got too far out of balance. No matter the excellence achieved in one arena of eternity, every arena must be mastered and incorporated into the wholeness of our potential or we will not, nay cannot, reach that potential. Peace.

Edited by fanofVan, 19 September 2012 - 04:01 PM.

Peace be upon you."

#12 Alina

Alina

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UNIVERSO
  • Interests:*

Posted 19 September 2012 - 04:25 PM

Yes, FanofVan, thanks! :)
It is true, but you say:
"But truth and goodness only Within interaction lie .... but Not Within chaos and distraction from chaos"

Sometimes we necessarily have found within the same chaos, (this seems quantum) because we have no other choice, as long as we stay away from our inner world, not saying it's easy! obviously.

Another thing I see, like, not equal. is this;

"But the Greek mythology was more aesthetic than ethic(1078.4)"

It seems to me, do not know if it will, but also in these times there is exaggeration by the appearance of the physical body, because it is as obsessive. I know appreciate beauty, body care, but now seems to have increased to levels that are touched something a little crazy,The cult of physical appearance.
I'm too picky today? :unsure:

Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 19 September 2012 - 05:00 PM.


#13 EllenRG

EllenRG

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 242 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:U.S. Pacific Northwest, Urantia, Nebadon, Orvonton,
  • Interests:BE Fatherly loving to each and all ! Getting our FACTS straight; Planetary wide integrity; straight talking-listening; compassion; altruism; creative solution imagination; adherence to spirit of law of life; identifying/eliminating laws made by selfish interests; identifying evil masquerading as good; avoiding perpetuation of error; supporting enlightened pursuits: momentarily in perpetuity AMEN

Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:22 PM

timestamp='1348059296' post='24133'][/size]

Dear Forum Friends,

Something Melchizedek said in Paper 98:2 kept lingering in mind, about the very fundamentals of the way we think, act and correct course these days. Do you think this paragraph points to a more or less unconscious but widely practiced diversion from the divine will, something that is prevalent in the self analysis trend, no?:


...The Greeks, however, did engage in a magnificent intellectual advancement. They had begun to master fear and no longer sought religion as an antidote therefor, but they did not perceive that true religion is the cure for soul hunger, spiritual disquiet, and moral despair. They sought for the solace of the soul in deep thinking--philosophy and metaphysics. They turned from the contemplation of self-preservation--salvation--to self-realization and self-understanding.... P.1078 - 6



Aren't most people these days focused on self understanding and improvement, as opposed to seeking Father's input? No blame to establish, but this self focus surely diverts from the simpler method Jesus and the UB authors constantly point to--just seek his will in everything, as you pass by. This relieves me from constant and habitual self analysis at least (even if I do have internal debates about exactly what his will is, and how to achieve "self forgetfulness"!).

Of course, with "true religion" comes experimentation with the divine love at the center of our being, that inward looking and outward feeling of just wanting to serve Father and fellows, it does seem to be the light and delight of life, even true religion.

The Greeks did contribute to Urantia's history an amazing legacy gained from the wisdom of deep and sincere thinking, on which much of modern society is founded. And the Greeks did finally embrace the religion about Jesus (thanks much to Paul), these Andite descendants living on 1400 islands not so far from Eden.

Do you think the ideal of true religion and the goals of modern self improvement can ever be reconciled?
.



Hi Rick,( hi All )... That quote and your observation get to the point well... it is not possible to "love" yourself because really love is intrinsically giving from God through you/us to/for others... (also we really can't "love" a thing, we can want it or like it, appreciate it)


12 step programs, which I perceive as complementing The URANTIA Book project, specify -higher power- AND claim healing comes from helping another. "Practice makes perfect". Helping, caring for a person is how we learn what love IS i think. --ell


Don Henley B)


.."..clear thinking, wise reasoning, logical judgment, sincere motivation, unselfish purpose, intelligent loyalty, experiential memory, disciplined character, and the unquestioning dedication of his personality to the doing of the will of the Father in Paradise." ..."..loving service, unselfish devotion, courageous loyalty, sincere fairness, enlightened honesty, undying hope, confiding trust, merciful ministry, unfailing goodness, forgiving tolerance, and enduring peace.." URANTIA.org

#14 Coop

Coop

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh PA

Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:54 AM

'' But truth and goodness only lie within interaction... ''

I Saw A Sign on a Church last week
that Said ;

'' When All Is said and Done
and over ,
DO You Say More , Or DO More ?

#15 Alina

Alina

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UNIVERSO
  • Interests:*

Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:28 AM

Good day to all!

Rick said:
Do you think the dream of true religion and the goals of modern self improvement can ever be reconciled?


I think it may be reconciled if people become aware and as always happened in the history, it takes the best of this moment, the best of the progress of science in all its wide range, the best of ideas and new customs and paying more attention to the true spirituality, True religion.
I think if civilization does this give a very important step in its evolution.
Science, not against religion, nor religion against science and all those differs from their dogmas,
institutions, ideas obsolete and rigid, and the sad pride of some religious leaders.
The pointer of the scale would be more balanced in this way and we can move on.
Why not say it? I have faith meanwhile projecting future although we are living in this time of change
and transitions, In This era of collective disorientation in which many young people say they are not able to project its future.But it has its good side, because I think this is what will give you the possibility to have to look beyond the momentary interests.
I think reconciliation is possible, but do not know how much time must pass,
The advantage can be great if you learn has to make good use of all the wonderful advances in recent years, with other tools and better compared to the past, to put the tools in the right hands, or rather, in the good mind clear goals and values ​​could arise very favorable growth and progress for the evolution of mankind, as in Greek history, Jesus in all its truth and glory, to give a more diaphanous light in the mind Urantians of all, they are prepared to receive the good news again!.

(2072.2) 195:1.9 In the first century after Christ, Hellenistic culture had already attained its highest levels; its retrogression had begun; learning was advancing but genius was declining. It was at this very time that the ideas and ideals of Jesus, which were partially embodied in Christianity, became a part of the salvage of Greek culture and learning.



Greetings,

Alina
***

#16 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:34 AM

Yes Sister Alina - the body and physical appearence thing is one form of such obsessiveness.....most of which are probably the mind seeking that love and acceptence that lies within. Are not all of us seeking something? Some just have more clarity of thought, depth of perception, and deeper response to this need and seek its source....to find God within and without thereby.

I also share your optimism and enthusiasm for the future and our youth but such requires a longer time frame of historical change and progress despite all the failures, twists, and turns along our backtrail. Peace.
Peace be upon you."

#17 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:40 AM

A Thought to Ponder from The Urantia Book

Posted Image

"Health, sanity, and happiness are integrations of truth, beauty, and goodness as they are blended in human experience."


(43.4) 2:7.11




Naturally, just read my thought of the day to ponder, and bingo!


Peace be upon you."

#18 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:47 AM

So many today (especially in the self help crowd) are so focused on "self" determination in very physical and material ways of measurement - we're taught how to push back against the demands and hustle and bustle that we will not set aside or harmonize....we just learn how to juggle MORE.


How much of the chronic yearning do you think is caused by the desire for control? Which makes me recall the Master's rebuke in Paper 155 where he answers the question, "Why do the heathen rage?" And where he also said, ""In all that you do, become not one-sided and overspecialized." And also my favorite:

155:1.5 "Let me emphatically state this eternal truth: If you, by truth co-ordination, learn to exemplify in your lives this beautiful wholeness of righteousnesss, your fellow men will then seek after you that they may gain what you have so acquired. The measure wherewith truth seekers are drawn to you represents the measure of your truth endowment, your righteousness. The extent to which you have to go with your message to the people is, in a way, the measure of your failure to live the whole or righteous life, the truth-co-ordinated life."

Are people searching for righteousness? I'm sure, if it is so, very few would admit to it unless they understood that righteousness and happiness are synonymous. People are looking for what they think is happiness and way too often that is translated into what they can have control over. And in a way, that is what we all want but few realize that the road to happiness is spirit control. And what is spirit control? It's obeying God's will.


155:1.3 "Why do the heathen rage? Because they know not the truth. Why do you languish in futile yearning? Because you obey not the truth."

#19 Alina

Alina

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UNIVERSO
  • Interests:*

Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:18 AM

Are people searching for righteousness? I'm sure, if it is so, very few would admit to it unless they understood that righteousness and happiness are synonymous.


Bonita,I agree, righteousness and all true values with potential for survival are the highest concept of happiness. From here to Eternity

I also share your optimism and enthusiasm for the future and our youth but such requires a longer time frame of historical change and progress despite all the failures, twists, and turns along our backtrail. Peace.


Yes, of course brother fanofVan, to the age of light and life takes time ... but what I think it is that. will not jump from here to just under a thousand years.
What I believe is that we will get there step after step, stage by stage. So, as I think it will be by a succession of relatively short age, speaking in cosmic terms. (for me, according to my actual observation) I think we're one of these thresholds a first mini-stage, In between and gradually I guess that will guide us to the full establishment in the Age of Light and Life.
The sudden and unexpected changes, as Revelations says are also within the possibilities, but I do not know enough to venture to said about those changes, whether or not happen.
Maybe it depends on us, perhaps the rulers of the universe: The Highs. Who can know?
Anyway the important thing is what we do "to and for" the Good, the rest is already is in good and better Hands. :rolleyes: right?


Love to all!


Alina
***

#20 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:31 AM

Yes Sister, agree. We may be "quivering on the brink" and "sudden" transformations do occur when a personal or social critical mass is achieved. BUT....this does not mean we will be "delivered" into L&L suddenly. The process of material/bio evolution is a clue. So is the repetition of choice and its rewards and consequences. Sister Bonita has previously pondered this cycle of full realization only by facing the same/similar choice over and over until our response becomes resolute by experience and not just by concept realization. I would think social/planetary progress is the same. We must not only make better choices for better outcomes, collectively by individuals, but we will only truly learn the truths within the better choices by repeating them and improving upon them until we, as a people, gain resolve and insight and purpose by those better choices.

Such a process of progress cannot be shortened artificially by ANY source. We are given guidance and assistance and sometimes we are even saved from our own, collective foolishness and evil by our unseen friends. But those do not serve the evil/error of our impatience, eh? The immaturity of impatience brings fear to some of judgement and retribution and to others a hope of divine intervention. But the mature mind and steady soul of ascension progress sees both obstacle and progress within the big picture of God's process for planetary upliftment and L&L. Peace.
Peace be upon you."




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users