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The Lucifer Rebellion - Adjudication Time Frame. By Chuck Thurston

Lucifer Rebellion Adjudication time frame

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#41 Bonita

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:43 AM

boom, do you have a passage to support this?


TUB does not say that there will never be another rebellion. Which is why Thurston's claim that evil will end when everyone looses sympathy for it is ludicrous. What TUB does say is that Michael now has the authority to immediately squelch any future rebellion, "summarily and effectively". Summarily means in a manner without the customary formalities.

134:8.9 On an afternoon in late summer, amid the trees and in the silence of nature, Michael of Nebadon won the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe. On that day he completed the task set for Creator Sons to live to the full the incarnated life in the likeness of mortal flesh on the evolutionary worlds of time and space. The universe announcement of this momentous achievement was not made until the day of his baptism, months afterward, but it all really took place that day on the mountain. And when Jesus came down from his sojourn on Mount Hermon, the Lucifer rebellionin Satania and the Caligastia secession on Urantia were virtually settled. Jesus had paid the last price required of him to attain the sovereignty of his universe, which in itself regulates the status of all rebels and determines that all such future upheavals (if they ever occur) may be dealt with summarily and effectively. Accordingly, it may be seen that the so-called “great temptation” of Jesus took place sometime before his baptism and not just after that event.

For me, the next thing I'd do, was look up info on the subject, and thus ran across biblical folks saying that it's fallen angels, so the next thing I do, is come here to this forum, to see your thoughts.


I just reread this part of marisa33's post and I think I'm beginning to get a glimpse of the alleged UFO/TUB connection. So, it's the fallen angel theory that connects UFO's to the Lucifer Rebellion then? Hmmmmm. Now that's a really strange twist of a hair's turning.

All of the angels involved in the rebellion are still detained.

53:9.1 Early in the days of the Lucifer rebellion, salvation was offered all rebels by Michael. To all who would show proof of sincere repentance, he offered, upon his attainment of complete universe sovereignty, forgiveness and reinstatement in some form of universe service. None of the leaders accepted this merciful proffer. But thousands of the angels and the lower orders of celestial beings, including hundreds of the Material Sons and Daughters, accepted the mercy proclaimed by the Panoptians and were given rehabilitation at the time of Jesus’ resurrection nineteen hundred years ago. These beings have since been transferred to the Father’s world of Jerusem, where they must be held, technically, until the Uversa courts hand down a decision in the matter of Gabriel vs. Lucifer. But no one doubts that, when the annihilation verdict is issued, these repentant and salvaged personalities will be exempted from the decree of extinction. These probationary souls now labor with the Panoptians in the work of caring for the Father’s world.

But here is the best evidence that no new angels have fallen:

53:9.5 Since Michael’s final bestowal no one in all Satania has desired to go to the prison worlds to minister to the interned rebels. And no more beings have been won to the deceiver’s cause. For nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged.



Of course, skeptics and fearmongers might want to claim that this is not the case today, especially if the Lucifer Trial is over (which is something we cannot know), but given Michael's sovereignty and ability to deal with rebels summarily, it seems highly unlikely that such a thing, even if it did happen, would be allowed by our loving leader. He certainly would not allow any such disloyalty to impact a single soul. Not to mention the absolutely ludicrous idea that alien fallen angels would need a spacecraft. The whole thing sounds like a made for TV scary shaman show. It's not just poppycock, it's poopy-crock.


And while I'm on the subject of poopy-crock, when was the decision made that it's okay to talk about channeling on this forum? I have an enormous amount to say on the subject but have refrained from bringing it up because I thought it was against the rules. Have things changed around here? Am I free to bring up some history, like from the beginning of the human race, that illustrates why people are so drawn to it?

Edited by Bonita, 16 October 2012 - 09:44 AM.


#42 Rick Warren

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:12 AM

And while I'm on the subject of poopy-crock, when was the decision made that it's okay to talk about channeling on this forum? I have an enormous amount to say on the subject but have refrained from bringing it up because I thought it was against the rules. Have things changed around here? Am I free to bring up some history, like from the beginning of the human race, that illustrates why people are so drawn to it?


It was made recently, and was debated by the moderators, still will be I'd say. To me, this thread has not been a good indicator of the contention that posting about channeling and ufos will decouple them from the revelation, notwithstanding some excellent commentary. The only thing I can see in its favor is that new readers might be forewarned....It has been a popular thread, but I keep asking, is it focused on UAI's central purpose for this Forum, study and spread of the new teachings? Admittedly this thread is an experiment, some members thought maybe it is better to allow presumed/quasi UB related discussions than to forbid them. Personally, and even more after this thread, do I like the idea that the Forum be one place in the U-community where channeling and ufos are NOT discussed. More later, as the staff wrestles with these matters that ever do pop up and demand decisions.

#43 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:21 AM

To Sister Bonita's point, divining and fortune telling and oracling and spiritualism, or "contact" with spirits and dead folk is hardly new and is not specific to the bastardization and prostitution of the Revelation, eh? But it is a principal form of mind weakness and fantasy that many gravitate to for "answers" to life's mysteries. These folk and the UFOers and those who contend the battle of heaven wages on and the end is uncertain due to demons and devils and fallen angels and those who live by tarot, ouji, and the stars.....they are kindred spirits to the degree that they seek that which is greater from the lesser, eh? The real problem lies in laziness, not fantasm. Ascension requires transcendence and this takes work. I also sought out the man on the mountain to touch my mind and make me enlightened. He laughed and laughed, kindly and gently, full of mirth and patient pity!!! Then he sent me back to deal with reality saying.....it is not easy to provide for oneself and for others, but it is infinitely easier than enlightment Grasshopper! You will find that which you seek but not without great effort, focus, and persistance.

Those who seek understanding must have something real to ponder and experience, eh? And those who seek the Father will find Him regardless of facts or belief or understanding anything at all but one - Love is real, God is its source, within the feeling and giving of love lies the answer and the mystery - the only ones that truly matter.

Rick - tricky, tricky stuff. Don't envy your chore here. I love this site and mostly because it is the only site where most are experienced students and true believers in TUB. Other sites are the playgrounds of the disgruntled and deluded, bringing every form of twisted mortal fear based fantasms to the table. Perhaps the place for the weak of mind and heart to pull the threads of truth apart from the woven whole is somewhere else after all. All love, respect, and support to your team as you seek the wise and patient and loving way through this little conundrum. Peace.
Peace be upon you."

#44 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:40 AM

Hi Bonita,

TUB does not say that there will never be another rebellion. Which is why Thursto's claim that evil will end when everyone looses sympathy for it is ludicrous.


Can you point me to where Chuck Thurston makes such a claim? Are you attributing to Chuck some of the 40+ quoted UB paragraphs in his article? For those following this thread in text-only mode on some pod or pad device, maybe the quote indicators are not clear?

for clarification,
Nigel

#45 brooklyn_born

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:41 AM

What TUB does say is that Michael now has the authority to immediately squelch any future rebellion, "summarily and effectively". Summarily means in a manner without the customary formalities.


It does not negate the possibility that rebellion can always arise, even now. And none of us can put a time frame on "summarily." Summarily could mean 10, 100, 1000, 10000 years. It is open to interpretation. Unfortunately, the Celestial who brought this revelation does not define the time frame. And besides, the matter of Grabiel v Lucifer and Caligastia do not fall under Michael's jurisdiction. As it stands, Caligastia has not been taken into custody and Michael does not have the authority to do so.


All of the angels involved in the rebellion are still detained.


All angels involved in the initial rebellion of our system, I agree, with exception to Caligastia, who was given free reign to prosecute his rebellion even until now.

But here is the best evidence that no new angels have fallen:

53:9.5 Since Michael’s final bestowal no one in all Satania has desired to go to the prison worlds to minister to the interned rebels. And no more beings have been won to the deceiver’s cause. For nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged.


How is this evidence, Bonita? The time frame given is the year 1900, which is a century ago. We are in 2012. What happened to 1901 - 2012? The status of any rebellion during this period is not provided. TUB does not account for the period after its revelation and eventual publication regarding post-Lucifer rebellion. But it does tell us Caligastia is free to pursue a rebellion.

Edited by brooklyn_born, 16 October 2012 - 09:47 AM.


#46 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:53 AM

The question, "So what?", is begging for answer here. I agree with Bonita and Boom, but, so what? How would a new rebellion or continuation of rebellion affect us? Please describe what that would mean, if true? Love is false? God does not rule over all after all? Free will is a mistake? There are uncertainties to His plan and power? Our planet is doomed? We are doomed? Is God a fraud or myth? What is the point of the inquiry? If not in fear, then especially so what? Fear of all forms is error and prevents progress and dimminishes faith. Every choice made and every truth or falsehood embraced moves closer or further from universe reality. Nothing discovered in fear can survive temporal materialism as this is its very source....it is unreal, as in Not Real. Let's get real here. Fear is not real or true or helpful in any way but one.....to transcend it to faith, confidence, poise, and the discovery of the power and reality of love. Mature minds are not fearful or fretful. Fear is childish, not child like. To hold it tight is to lose the discernment required to discover truth, beauty, and goodness. Peace.
Peace be upon you."

#47 brooklyn_born

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:56 AM

foV, I don't think a rebellion should be taken lightly. Why did the revelators feel it important to reveal this history to us? They could have left it out the UB narrative and just reveal love, faith and those virtues that bring us to God. But such is not the case as there is more to the universe than virtues, realistically speaking.

We could use that history as a tool to empower mortals in face of possible new ones. Look at what happened on the mansion worlds even though they had knowledge to previous rebellions. Those worlds suffered significant lost of personalities. I could envision many denizens of those worlds using your very argument, you know.

As long as Caligastia is roaming the planet promoting his rebellion, we should not ignore it. Mortals need to be aware of rebellion, and build up better psychic defenses against Caligastia, especially those who have not attained their 3rd circle. And here's the tricky part, no one knows what psychic circle they are at! It is better to play it safe, right?

BB

Edited by brooklyn_born, 16 October 2012 - 10:04 AM.


#48 brooklyn_born

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:01 AM

I mentioned this somewhere, not sure if it was here. TAs speak to the superconscious of mind using embeds in the form of pictures. Caligastia knows this and I would not be surprised if he's employed a scheme to dupe many to the rebellion side by duplicating the function of TA. Has anyone heard of subliminal advertisements?

BB

#49 marisa33

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:04 AM

I am new to this forum and I sincerely wish to follow the rules, so I don't mean to step outside the boundaries. It's hard to discuss a relevant topic, and leave out the WHY it's important for me to know, because it leaves everyone confused, with comments of "who cares", because I can't tell them why I care, since I have to leave the story out.

What I can tell you is this: I am a student of the Urantia and trust it more than any other source. As I am a mere human, the urantia could be telling me exactly what I need to know, but I may not get it...or even find it within the thousands of pages.

I am NOT a person who is INTO ufos or Channeling. I'm NOT facinated by it. I DON'T think it is a FUN topic; I am not drawn to it because of TV programs, I'm NOT seeking it....I just want to live a blissfully normal life.

But if it happens to you, would everyone agree that it is wise to understand and research what's going on? The first place I look to for understanding is The Urantia. However, I've been sidetracked to some biblical explanations, which (yes) did make me fearful.

So, this is why I ask.... have circuits been open? Are we safe? Is the war over or at it's height? From what I've read (forgive me If this is outside the rules, but I don't want to cause any more confusion), some of this is of spiritual nature (they are dimentional) and are appearing to MANY people. Some stories are positive and wonderful; some are not. Apparently, some are actually from other planets; some are spiritual. This is why the biblical community has mentioned the "spiritual war".

One biblical source said that there is a dimentional group, flying around, saying that Jesus is their master head and they are here in peace and wish to protect our society from nuclear dangers. Now, it sounds a little crazy, but despite that, these guys appear to people all over the world. So, the biblical community started talking about it, crying out "deception". For this reason, I duck my head, run inside, for fear (even though I should apparently not be fearful).

So, even though I'd love to befriend and open my heart to some "visitor". It seems wise to study, be aware and know what's going on. Thanks.

#50 Bill Martin

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:10 AM

Bonita knows more about this stuff than Thurston ever will and she has exhibited commendable restraint in all her years of participation this Forum just because we have managed to keep the "wolves away from the door." Now "the camel has his nose under the tent" and how do you "put the genie back into the bottle?"

This subject has been the cause of more dissension among the readers of the UB than any other and I've made my views clear on this. People should be free to think and say whatever they feel about the Urantia Book and listeners have the responsibility to parse the truth, themselves. But not here, please.
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#51 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:20 AM

BB - I previously gave my explaination for its inclusion in TUB - to demonstrate infinite love, universe patience, the ministries of mercy, the functional fact of free will and the inherencies therein, and the power of God as He rules His kingdom. All and each are important lessons, no? The rebellion and its abjudication are the reflection of reality. But there is nothing to fear....ever. Period. Thus, my "so what?" One either approaches truth with or without fear and the content of fear directly supports or retards that approach. If you fear....anything, anywhere, anytime, for any reason....you are NOT even beginning to approach truth and reality, eh?

PS - emphasis on "my" explaination. B)

Edited by fanofVan, 16 October 2012 - 10:23 AM.

Peace be upon you."

#52 brooklyn_born

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:21 AM

marisa this is what UB states:

53:9.6 We do not look for a removal of the present Satania restrictions until the Ancients of Days make final disposition of the archrebels. The system circuits will not be reinstated so long as Lucifer lives. Meantime, he is wholly inactive.

circuits go back online once Lucifer has been executed. The quote says "meantime, he is wholly inactive." Yet we must consider the context of time frame. When was this fact revealed? Early 20th century. Do we know if Lucifer has been executed since that statement was made? We don't, unless there is a 6th epochal revelation already in the works. But if he has then the questions you pose about Caligastia tricking people are legitimate in my opinion.

I don't think TUB states that Lucifer's execution runs concurrent with Caligastia's (I may be wrong, so to any of the seasoned readers of UB please correct me on that.) Caligastia may be disposed of after Lucifer permanently is dealt with. If that is the case, then your questions merit further investigation since circuits may go online while he is still around.

BB

I am new to this forum and I sincerely wish to follow the rules, so I don't mean to step outside the boundaries. It's hard to discuss a relevant topic, and leave out the WHY it's important for me to know, because it leaves everyone confused, with comments of "who cares", because I can't tell them why I care, since I have to leave the story out.

What I can tell you is this: I am a student of the Urantia and trust it more than any other source. As I am a mere human, the urantia could be telling me exactly what I need to know, but I may not get it...or even find it within the thousands of pages.

I am NOT a person who is INTO ufos or Channeling. I'm NOT facinated by it. I DON'T think it is a FUN topic; I am not drawn to it because of TV programs, I'm NOT seeking it....I just want to live a blissfully normal life.

But if it happens to you, would everyone agree that it is wise to understand and research what's going on? The first place I look to for understanding is The Urantia. However, I've been sidetracked to some biblical explanations, which (yes) did make me fearful.

So, this is why I ask.... have circuits been open? Are we safe? Is the war over or at it's height? From what I've read (forgive me If this is outside the rules, but I don't want to cause any more confusion), some of this is of spiritual nature (they are dimentional) and are appearing to MANY people. Some stories are positive and wonderful; some are not. Apparently, some are actually from other planets; some are spiritual. This is why the biblical community has mentioned the "spiritual war".

One biblical source said that there is a dimentional group, flying around, saying that Jesus is their master head and they are here in peace and wish to protect our society from nuclear dangers. Now, it sounds a little crazy, but despite that, these guys appear to people all over the world. So, the biblical community started talking about it, crying out "deception". For this reason, I duck my head, run inside, for fear (even though I should apparently not be fearful).

So, even though I'd love to befriend and open my heart to some "visitor". It seems wise to study, be aware and know what's going on. Thanks.


Edited by brooklyn_born, 16 October 2012 - 10:31 AM.


#53 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:26 AM

Thank you Bill!


Our forum is sponsored by Urantia Association International - UAI. Our organization has this policy statement on our website.



UAI Policy Statement concerning the Channeling Phenomenon

Within certain groups of people reading The Urantia Book, there has developed a phenomenon labeled "channelling" or the "Teaching Mission." Advocates of this phenomenon claim to be in touch with superhuman personalities, who sometimes have names taken from The Urantia Book.


While UAI neither endorses, promotes, nor denies any individual's personal experiences, we must assure readers that neither UAI nor The Urantia Book has any connection with this phenomenon.


UAI has taken great care over the years to ensure that The Urantia Book is not publicly identified with cultic, psychic, or occult groups and phenomena.


The UAI, as an organization, does not sanction channelling activities at UAI sponsored functions, seminars, conferences or internet discussion groups.


We believe that the Urantia Book's teachings should be unencumbered by public alliance with either New Age beliefs or traditional religions.



Déclaration de politique de l'AUI concernant le phénomène
du Channelling
- French (pdf)

Política de la AUI sobre los fenómenos de canalización - Spanish (pdf)



http://www.urantia-uai.org/



All the best,
Meredith

#54 brooklyn_born

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:28 AM

Okay, to you it is a "so what," but do you think that that is a realistic attitude for everyone, foV? And if a seeker has questions regarding it should the answer be 'so what?' How did Gabriel deal with the Luciferian doctrine that was at the time being promoted all throughout the mansion worlds? Didn't he match it wit for wit to convince the weak and immature souls? Did Gabriel take the 'lesser fair', aka, so what attitude or did he contend for universal loyalty?


BB - I previously gave my explaination for its inclusion in TUB - to demonstrate infinite love, universe patience, the ministries of mercy, the functional fact of free will and the inherencies therein, and the power of God as He rules His kingdom. All and each are important lessons, no? The rebellion and its abjudication are the reflection of reality. But there is nothing to fear....ever. Period. Thus, my "so what?" One either approaches truth with or without fear and the content of fear directly supports or retards that approach. If you fear....anything, anywhere, anytime, for any reason....you are NOT even beginning to approach truth and reality, eh?

PS - emphasis on "my" explaination. B)


Edited by brooklyn_born, 16 October 2012 - 10:29 AM.


#55 -Scott-

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:32 AM

Caligastia is impotent now, and Jesus already stated that "his gospel will rule this very world". Caligastia is like a cockroach in the eyes the arch-angels. These beings provide a lot of muscle and protection. The Thought Adjuster is also infinitely more divine and likely immeasurably more powerfull than these beings, we have nothing to worry about.

Also there are over 6 billion humans, I am sure he only goes to those who wish to "be cursed with his presence". And I am sure there are people who do wish that. Its not like he is Santa and he can get into everyones home at night. And please don't tell me Santa is a fairy tale...lol :lol:

One more thing. If people could actually communicate with cellestial beings, don't you guys and gals think that they would be getting information that is on par with the information in the urantia book??? But it never is....it is exactly the type of writing you would expect from someone delusional. The u.b allows us to sift threw all this stuff rather quickly, and see that is just stuff. Malarky :)

Edited by boomshuka, 16 October 2012 - 10:38 AM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#56 brooklyn_born

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:38 AM

Also there are over 6 billion humans, I am sure he only goes to those who wish to "be cursed with his presence". And I am sure there are people who do wish that. Its not like he is Santa and he can get into everyones home at night. And please don't tell me Santa is a fairy tale...lol :lol:

One more thing. If people could actually communicate with cellestial beings, don't you guys and gals think that they would be getting information that is on par with the information in the urantia book??? But it never is....it is exactly the type of writing you would expect from someone delusional. The u.b allows us to sift threw all this stuff rather quickly, and see that is just stuff. Malarky :)


I agree, in the greater scheme of things, we have nothing to worry about. However, Caligastia is higher in divinity than arc angels:


30:1.7 A. The Descending Orders.
1. Creator Sons.
2. Magisterial Sons.
3. Bright and Morning Stars.
4. Father Melchizedeks.
5. The Melchizedeks.
6. The Vorondadeks.
7. The Lanonandeks.
8. Brilliant Evening Stars.
9. The Archangels.
10. Life Carriers.
11. Unrevealed Universe Aids.
12. Unrevealed Sons of God.

How does one wish to be "be cursed with his presence"? What actions can facilitate this? I would definitely like to know! and make sure I am not doing those things that would make it easier for Caligastia to gain access to me.




53:8.9 In general, when weak and dissolute mortals are supposed to be under the influence of devils and demons, they are merely being dominated by their own inherent and debased tendencies, being led away by their own natural propensities. The devil has been given a great deal of credit for evil which does not belong to him. Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ.

Edited by brooklyn_born, 16 October 2012 - 10:50 AM.


#57 Rick Warren

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:47 AM

Good one BB,

And it seems somehow fortuitous that Alina just posted this on another thread:

...Urantia mortals should not allow the comparative spiritual isolation of their world from certain of the local universe circuits to produce a feeling of cosmic desertion or planetary orphanage. There is operative on the planet a very definite and effective superhuman supervision of world affairs and human destinies.... (1258.6) 114:7.14

No fear. Father has our back, no matter what.

#58 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:15 AM

Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion -- admin has now paused this thread to give us the opportunity to reflect for a few days.

If anyone feels they have something else of value to add, please feel free to send a personal message (PM) to me or any of the moderators. If appropriate, we can use such mature and reflective summaries to round out the discussion.

As Meredith, Bill and Rick said so well, this forum is one of the few public places where students of the Urantia book can explore this fifth epochal revelation without being swamped with diversion and speculation. To those looking for diversion and speculation, there are other places to try.

Thanks for your patience and understanding, and for your contributions.
Nigel
UAI forum admin




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