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Mary's age ?


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#1 Moon

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 06:22 AM

Would anyone know Mary's age when she got married to Joseph ? Thanx.

#2 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:21 AM

Married in March 8 BC - p.1350 Joseph was 21 - p.1349 - can't find Mary's age...sorry.
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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:23 PM

Not from the UB but from ancient documentation, Mary was of the age of Jewish adulthood, at the age of 13 and, Joseph was a widower, with children at the age of 50.
Joseph's age was a concern to him, taking on a wife this young and was concerned of what others in the village would think of him.
But those were the ancient of day records and does not correlate to the UB but from another time and age.

Edited by As-Within-So-Without, 27 July 2012 - 04:11 PM.


#4 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:14 PM

Not from the UB but from ancient documentation, Mary was of the age of Jewish adulthood, at the age of 13 and, Joseph was a widower, with children at the age of 50.
Joseph's age was a concern to him, taking on a wife this young and was concerned of what others in the village would think of him.
But those were the ancient of day records and does not correlate to the UB but from another time and age.


Show us the "ancient documentation", the one you mention, as you have put it: "But those were the ancient of day records and does not correlate to the UB but from another time and age." What ancient of day records are you talking about, alluding to? Maybe others besides myself would like to know.


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Posted 28 July 2012 - 09:00 AM

Joining with the cosmic mind can only be realized or visualized by those who have accepted the bestowal of the Son of Man. Even Jesus came in physical form so that they should believe by sight and touch, yet many believed not.
The question is not what but, how and why, are there differences in the cosic mind?

(201.3) 17:3.5 The Reflective Spirits are not merely transmitting agents; they are retentive personalities as well. Their offspring, the seconaphim, are also retentive or record personalities. Everything of true spiritual value is registered in duplicate, and one impression is preserved in the personal equipment of some member of one of the numerous orders of secoraphic personalities belonging to the vast staff of the Reflective Spirits.

(201.4) 17:3.6 The formal records of the universes are passed up by and through the angelic recorders, but the true spiritual records are assembled by reflectivity and are preserved in the minds of suitable and appropriate personalities belonging to the family of the Infinite Spirit. These are the live records in contrast with the formal and dead records of the universe, and they are perfectly preserved in the living minds of the recording personalities of the Infinite Spirit.

(209.6) 18:3.4 The Ancients of Days were all trinitized at the same time. They represent the beginning of the personality records of the universe of universes, hence their name — Ancients of Days. When you reach Paradise and search the written records of the beginning of things, you will find that the first entry appearing in the personality section is the recital of the trinitization of these twenty-one Ancients of Days.

(209.7) 18:3.5 These high beings always govern in groups of three. There are many phases of activity in which they work as individuals, still others in which any two can function, but in the higher spheres of their administration they must act jointly. They never personally leave their residential worlds, but then they do not have to, for these worlds are the superuniverse focal points of the far-flung reflectivity system.

#6 JR Sherrod

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 12:29 PM

I simply do not follow your last post, As-Within-So-Without. Whay "different" records are you referring to?

"But those were the ancient of day records and does not correlate to the UB but from another time and age."

A source of records on Urantia, but not the Urantia Book, is very suspect with me. Are you referring "channeled" records from some mystic source?
Ah! To be host to God, Himself; and to be enriched beyond measure by that incomprehensible treasure!

#7 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 12:37 PM

I don't think so JR - As Above's website is a study of ancient and modern texts - written texts - where he assembles many sources in the seeking of "old" truths for new presentation - an archivist with distribution of that so gleaned and collected, integrating them into a philosophy of thinking and being - many of which would be considered religious texts too. I've read nothing that leads me to believe anything asked or written is "divined" or "received" by him - he does have a context of perspective based on his research (who doesn't?)....but then I should let him speak for himself, eh?
Peace be upon you."

#8 Bonita

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 01:33 PM

Joining with the cosmic mind can only be realized or visualized by those who have accepted the bestowal of the Son of Man. Even Jesus came in physical form so that they should believe by sight and touch, yet many believed not.
The question is not what but, how and why, are there differences in the cosic mind?


What do you mean by "joining with the cosmic mind"? The cosmic mind is not dependent upon one's acceptance of the bestowal of Michael. I think you have the cosmic mind confused with the Spirit of Truth. It's the Spirit of Truth that is limited in function by one's personal reception of substance of Jesus' mission, not the cosmic mind. Everyone has the cosmic mind.

p379:05 Though the Spirit of Truth is poured out upon all flesh, this spirit of the Son is almost wholly limited in function and power by man's personal reception of that which constitutes the sum and substance of the mission of the bestowal Son.

The cosmic mind is a bestowal of the Daughters of the Conjoint Actor, our local Divine Minister. The source of the cosmic mind is the seven Master Spirits, offspring of the Third Source and Center.

9.5.4 Since the Third Person of Deity is the source of mind, it is quite natural that the evolutionary will creatures find it easier to form comprehensible concepts of the Infinite Spirit than they do of either the Eternal Son or the Universal Father. The reality of the Conjoint Creator is disclosed imperfectly in the very existence of human mind. The Conjoint Creator is the ancestor of the cosmic and the mind of man is an individualized circuit, an impersonal portion, of that cosmic mind as it is bestowed in a local universe by a Creative Daughter of the Third Source and Center.

No one has to join with the cosmic mind; every mind is an individualized circuit of the cosmic mind. If you're thinking at all, you're utilizing the cosmic mind and you don't have to join it as if it were some kind of secret club. If you're a personal being, you already have a cosmic mind endowment. Whether or not you use it to it's fullest potential is another thing all together.


16.7.5 When man fails to discriminate the ends of his mortal striving, he finds himself functioning on the animal level of existence. He has failed to avail himself of the superior advantages of that material acumen, moral discrimination, and spiritual insight which are an integral part of his cosmic-mind endowment as a personal being.

#9 JR Sherrod

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 05:11 PM

I don't think so JR - As Above's website is a study of ancient and modern texts - written texts - where he assembles many sources in the seeking of "old" truths for new presentation - an archivist with distribution of that so gleaned and collected, integrating them into a philosophy of thinking and being - many of which would be considered religious texts too. I've read nothing that leads me to believe anything asked or written is "divined" or "received" by him - he does have a context of perspective based on his research (who doesn't?)....but then I should let him speak for himself, eh?


I went to his website to see for myself - and spent a long time there! Thanks!!
Ah! To be host to God, Himself; and to be enriched beyond measure by that incomprehensible treasure!

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:24 PM

If I may explain further as to why I posted the response which I did and hopefully it will open minds to their memories of experienced life.

The response which I gave to Mary’s age came from my experienced knowledge acquired from learning, reading, listening in order to find more information on Jesus, religion, and just to enhance my overall knowledge of these and other subjects which interested me. In essence, my progressive reality, living life as it was given to me, one day at a time. As I grow older I noticed that I was bestowed with what might be called an eidetic like, autobiographical memory. This memory allows me to recall events and experiences which go back to my infancy.

At any rate I remember reading about Mary’s life and I noted as logical that as was described she was thirteen and her parents were concerned as to who She should marry since this was the Jewish tradition of that time. She was fourteen when She gave birth to Jesus as the biblical story of my reading indicated that Joseph was selected from the village because of his age and He was very concerned, since Mary was pregnant (virgin birth thing), that He would be accused of knowing Her before their marriage.

When one studies Jewish traditions, specifically of this time, it was customary if a son died and left a wife and family and there was an unmarried brother, or male in the family or village, for them to marry their brothers widow regardless of age. These traditions petty much required the complete family unit and it was not always left up to the individual parties to have complete say over who they would marry. However, there were many occurrences where because of greater numbers of one sex or the other, where these traditions may not have been practical, therefore they would go out to other surrounding areas or villages to find matches. There were some instances when both parties did not agree to the match where there were holdouts.

The reference to Joseph’s age of 50 and being a widower with children, did not adversely register an unbelievable thought because the reference material I was reading was Christian in nature and would have followed with Cannon doctrine that Mary remained a virgin not having had additional children and would allow for Jesus to have brothers and sisters. At any rate, regardless of Josephs age, it would be most logical that Mary was of the age of thirteen or fourteen following the Jewish traditions and being a woman, would have had little to say about it.

When using the UB quotes which reference “Ancients”, the implication is to direct that much of the religious or theological documentation which we have today cannot often be verified as accurate or true thereby requiring the in absentia scribe or author be scrutinized by the reader as to validity or not, assuming that the corresponding information can be confirmed as logical to the material given, because most of the actual witness’ are died and can be considered “Ancient”.

Regarding “joining” to the “Cosmic Mind”: Everyone has access to what the UB describes as the “cosmic mind” but not everyone takes advantage of it because they either don’t know that it exists or don’t understand how to use or access it through their human mind’s inability to recognize the language so-to-speak, until you know or have found yourself. Therefore, when one is at one with the “cosmic mind” they have joined the collective, so-to-speak.

There are many occurrences of “cosmic mind” in the UB but they all do not mean the same thing in all of their usage. The UB’s specific definition which best explains my use is listed below. In my opinion, the first sentence of the first quote can be confusing in that the use of, “The Master Spirits are the sevenfold source of the cosmic mind,” is not that descriptive but, the remainder of the sentence actual is the description, where “intellectual potential” can refer to the “logic” of “the grand universe.” The remainder might be translated as, the underlying source from the mothers (creative) source of the logical thinking or reasoning behind the growing function of the Supreme Being.

The Cosmic Mind

(191.4) 16:6.1 The Master Spirits are the sevenfold source of the cosmic mind, the intellectual potential of the grand universe. This cosmic mind is a subabsolute manifestation of the mind of the Third Source and Center and, in certain ways, is functionally related to the mind of the evolving Supreme Being.

(191.5) 16:6.2 On a world like Urantia we do not encounter the direct influence of the Seven Master Spirits in the affairs of the human races. You live under the immediate influence of the Creative Spirit of Nebadon. Nevertheless these same Master Spirits dominate the basic reactions of all creature mind because they are the actual sources of the intellectual and spiritual potentials which have been specialized in the local universes for function in the lives of those individuals who inhabit the evolutionary worlds of time and space.

(191.6) 16:6.3 The fact of the cosmic mind explains the kinship of various types of human and superhuman minds. Not only are kindred spirits attracted to each other, but kindred minds are also very fraternal and inclined towards co-operation the one with the other. Human minds are sometimes observed to be running in channels of astonishing similarity and inexplicable agreement.

(191.7) 16:6.4 There exists in all personality associations of the cosmic mind a quality which might be denominated the “reality response.” It is this universal cosmic endowment of will creatures which saves them from becoming helpless victims of the implied a priori assumptions of science, philosophy, and religion. This reality sensitivity of the cosmic mind responds to certain phases of reality just as energy-material responds to gravity. It would be still more correct to say that these supermaterial realities so respond to the mind of the cosmos.

(192.1) 16:6.5 The cosmic mind unfailingly responds (recognizes response) on three levels of universe reality. These responses are self-evident to clear-reasoning and deep-thinking minds. These levels of reality are:


(192.2) 16:6.6 1. Causation — the reality domain of the physical senses, the scientific realms of logical uniformity, the differentiation of the factual and the nonfactual, reflective conclusions based on cosmic response. This is the mathematical form of the cosmic discrimination.

(192.3) 16:6.7 2. Duty — the reality domain of morals in the philosophic realm, the arena of reason, the recognition of relative right and wrong. This is the judicial form of the cosmic discrimination.

(192.4) 16:6.8 3. Worship — the spiritual domain of the reality of religious experience, the personal realization of divine fellowship, the recognition of spirit values, the assurance of eternal survival, the ascent from the status of servants of God to the joy and liberty of the sons of God. This is the highest insight of the cosmic mind, the reverential and worshipful form of the cosmic discrimination.


(192.5) 16:6.9 These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures. The experience of living never fails to develop these three cosmic intuitions; they are constitutive in the self-consciousness of reflective thinking. But it is sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of courageous and independent cosmic thinking.

(192.6) 16:6.10 In the local universe mind bestowals, these three insights of the cosmic mind constitute the a priori assumptions which make it possible for man to function as a rational and self-conscious personality in the realms of science, philosophy, and religion. Stated otherwise, the recognition of the reality of these three manifestations of the Infinite is by a cosmic technique of self-revelation. Matter-energy is recognized by the mathematical logic of the senses; mind-reason intuitively knows its moral duty; spirit-faith (worship) is the religion of the reality of spiritual experience. These three basic factors in reflective thinking may be unified and co-ordinated in personality development, or they may become disproportionate and virtually unrelated in their respective functions. But when they become unified, they produce a strong character consisting in the correlation of a factual science, a moral philosophy, and a genuine religious experience. And it is these three cosmic intuitions that give objective validity, reality, to man’s experience in and with things, meanings, and values.

(192.7) 16:6.11 It is the purpose of education to develop and sharpen these innate endowments of the human mind; of civilization to express them; of life experience to realize them; of religion to ennoble them; and of personality to unify them.


The definitions of the following words are difficult to find:
“a priori” – http://www.reference.com/browse/priori

In epistemology, knowledge that is independent of all particular experiences, as opposed to a posteriori (or empirical) knowledge, which derives from experience. The terms have their origins in the medieval Scholastic debate over Aristotelian concepts (see Scholasticism). Immanuel Kant initiated their current usage, pairing the analytic-synthetic distinction with the a priori–a posteriori distinction to define his theory of knowledge.

“epistemology” – http://dictionary.re...qsrc=2894&l=dir
noun - a branch of philosophy that investigates the origin, nature, methods, and limits of human knowledge.

“a posteriori” – http://www.reference...owse/posteriori

See A priori and a posteriori (philosophy)
http://www.reference...i_(philosophy)
“The terms "a priori " and "a posteriori " are used in philosophy primarily to distinguish between two different types of knowledge, though the distinction is often used to distinguish different types of justification or arguments. Either way, the distinction is an epistemological one.
The exact definitions of the terms have changed over time. However, roughly speaking, a priori knowledge is independent of experience (e.g. All bachelors are unmarried); a posteriori knowledge is dependent on experience (e.g. Some bachelors are lonely). More precisely, the issue concerns how one knows the proposition or claim in question—what justifies or grounds one's belief in it. Is what justifies one's belief in the proposition partly due to experience or not? As the philosopher Galen Strawson once put it, an a priori argument is one in which "you can see that it is true just lying on your couch. You don't have to get up off your couch and go outside and examine the way things are in the physical world. You don't have to do any science.

Although similar, the a priori/a posteriori distinction is not exactly the same as the following distinctions: deductive/ inductive, analytic/synthetic, necessary/ contingent.
. . . .

Edited by As-Within-So-Without, 05 August 2012 - 03:42 PM.


#11 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 03:06 PM

Regarding “joining” to the “Cosmic Mind”: Everyone has access to what the UB describes as the “cosmic mind” but not everyone takes advantage of it because they either don’t know that it exists or don’t understand how to use or access it through their human mind’s inability to recognize the language so-to-speak, until you know or have found yourself. Therefore, when one is at one with the “cosmic mind” they have joined the collective, so-to-speak.


Thanks for adding the proviso: "until you know or have found yourself". But by claiming that "Everyone has access", you may be repeating an (understandable) mistake made by teachers throughout history: just because you have shifted the seat of your identity into your soul, and thus can engage the next level of our Nebadon Mother's mind, does not imply that everyone should be able "to tune in, if only they tried, or knew how". Until we have access to our morontia equipment, how on earth can we access morontia circuits? Teachers need to understand not only their students, but also their mutual circumstances. As students of the UB, we are now able to be more precise when describing our relationship to, and interaction with, the mind circuits animating Orvonton and Nebadon.

As they say in the classics, "Small steps, Ellie. Small steps."
Nigel

#12 Bonita

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:28 PM

16:6.5 The cosmic mind unfailingly responds (recognizes response) on three levels of universe reality. These responses are self-evident to clear-reasoning and deep-thinking minds.

Everyone has access to the cosmic mind, but it is only self-evident to clear-reasoning and deep-thinking minds. It has nothing to do with soul consciousness as far as I'm aware. It's all about the reality response and everyone has access to that.

42:12.11 The liaison of the cosmic mind and the ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits evolve a suitable physical tabernacle for the evolving human being.

16:6.4 There exists in all personality associations of the cosmic mind a quality which might be denominated the "reality response.” It is this universal cosmic endowment of will creatures which saves them from becoming helpless victims of the implied a priori assumptions of science, philosophy, and religion. This reality sensitivity of the cosmic mind responds to certain phases of reality just as energy-material responds to gravity. It would be still more correct to say that these supermaterial realities so respond to the mind of the cosmos.

16:9.1
The cosmic-mind-endowed, Adjuster-indwelt, personal creature possesses innate recognition-realization of energy reality, mind reality, and spirit reality. The will creature is thus equipped to discern the fact, the law, and the love of God. Aside from these three inalienables of human consciousness, all human experience is really subjective except that intuitive realization of validity attaches to the unification of these three universe reality responses of cosmic recognition.

Soul-consciousness accesses the morontia mind. The morontia mind is the spiritualized mind.

110:2.6 Morontia mind is a term signifying the substance and sum total of the co-operating minds of diversely material and spiritual natures. Morontia intellect, therefore, connotes a dual mind in the local universe dominated by one will. And with mortals this is a will, human in origin, which is becoming divine through man’s identification of the human mind with the mindedness of God.




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