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Superior and Inferior: the Problem of Inequality


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#1 Kaybe

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 08:51 PM

After studying this paper last week, it occurs to me that justice and mercy are important elements not only in this paper, but throughout the substance of the revelation. Justice, it could be argued, is the remedy for injury - someone has been hurt. Justice is about making good the damage and remedying the cause of the injury, rather than causing equal injury. So mercy is justice tempered by love (I think I read that in one of the papers :unsure: )

As usual, when I gain more insight, the subject becomes much more important to me suddenly!
On a frosty winters night, stand looking into the spangled sky, and listen carefully. Can you hear the spheres, singing in their courses?

If my questions seem naieve, please understand that I am a newcomer to the papers eager to learn more

#2 Bonita

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 12:23 PM

TUB does not hesitate to delineate the difference between superior and inferior. Have you ever wondered why? Have you ever wondered why TUB does not equate superior with right, and inferior with wrong? Have you ever wondered why we humans insist on doing that very thing?

There is nothing wrong with inequality. That is the one point I hope this book eventually gets people to understand. However, our society is so very, very far from accepting this and that is partly because it has assigned moral issues to the words superior and inferior. Today, anything or anyone who is deemed to be superior must be made inferior in order to create equality. The roles must to be reversed. But society fails to realize that by flip-flopping, they are merely creating a new definition of superior and inferior. Superior and inferior will not go away.

The focus is ineffective. We are designed to have superior and inferior -- inequalities. Why else would there be so many colored races? Why else would superhuman beings come to live among us? Why else would we begin our journey as lemurs? Why would evolution be determined by survival of the fittest?

Besides the growth of altruism, what do you suppose the purpose of creating inequality is? Why have superior and inferior anything?

#3 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 03:20 PM

God is no respecter of persons, spiritual or material, nor is he respecter of planets, systems, universes. He has bestowed himself upon us without limit and without favor. (http://www.urantia.o...-attributes-god) I think it helpful to view ourselves from space, so to speak, to see ourselves (to the best of our ability) as God see us. So when I see you, I see you as an equal, spiritually speaking, though you are different from me in nearly every other respect.

In the finite we want to measure things - how superior or inferior something is. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. We want to know the efficacy of products we comsume or use. We want to know how something measures up to a standard of safety, for example. Or a standard of reliability or a standard of beneficance. We rank and file all sorts of things and people according to some standard of valuation we have in mind. And we use tests to determine IQ, for example. Doen't everyone want to be in the superior group? If there is a superior group, does that not also imply an inferior group?

We have superior and inferior strains of DNA. There are different qualities of mind too, superior and less so. Will the human race evolve to be a homogenous people in the future? Probably, but not until we are more highly spiritually developed in the far distant future. (http://www.urantia.o...ary-races-color) And this takes time. We, as a people on this planet, are where we are in this moment of time. We cannot be somewhere else, though you can travel to a different country where culture and standards of living are very different, some superior and some inferior, judged by one's own standard of valuation when compared to another culture, another country, another people. I find this reference interesting and perhaps applicable to the topic:



Culture presupposes quality of mind; culture cannot be enhanced unless mind is elevated. Superior intellect will seek a noble culture and find some way to attain such a goal. Inferior minds will spurn the highest culture even when presented to them ready-made. Much depends, also, upon the successive missions of the divine Sons and upon the extent to which enlightenment is received by the ages of their respective dispensations. (P. 578; http://www.urantia.o...anetary-princes)



I think it's evolutionary - how much enlightenment is received be the missions of the divine Sons, going forward.




All the best,

Meredith



#4 Bonita

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 10:20 AM

In the finite we want to measure things - how superior or inferior something is. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. We want to know the efficacy of products we comsume or use. We want to know how something measures up to a standard of safety, for example. Or a standard of reliability or a standard of beneficance. We rank and file all sorts of things and people according to some standard of valuation we have in mind. And we use tests to determine IQ, for example. Doen't everyone want to be in the superior group? If there is a superior group, does that not also imply an inferior group?


Yes I agree, but how do we know that our standards and means of measure are actually superior? As an example, I have discovered in our government-run, public education system, belonging to the intellectually superior group is very much discouraged. In a single generation it has become more prestigious to belong to a special needs group. Special needs translates to superior, and that is partly because it is this group that brings in most of the money to the school system. My point being, what is labeled as superior is not always better even though it is preferred. It often works that way in the marketplace as well. I was once taught, "You get what you pay for." But that is not always true either; I have had more trouble with some of my superiorly expensive purchases than with my average ones.

So what I'm trying to say is that each person has their own definition of superior and inferior based upon their own value system. Unfortunately, in our modern age, our government (USA) attempts to sanction that value system which brings in the most money and/or longer term in office in order to control that money. There isn't a single regulation or standard of excellence created that doesn't either create a problem elsewhere or exclude something that might actually be superior. Values seem to fluctuate like the tide, and most often, when examined with unbiased scrutiny, it usually comes down to money rather than "what works" for the betterment of mankind. And worse yet, very few can agree on what is better for mankind. Your better is not my better and neither may be best.

Besides learning altruism, I think another reason to have inequality is to learn true values. Eventually, in ages to come, we will learn to value the "right way", which is God's way. We will learn to recognize what is truly superior and thus be less indulgent of that which is inferior.

25:4.17 There is always a best and right way to do things; there is always the technique of perfection, a divine method, and these advisers know how to direct us all in the finding of this better way.

Do we really recognize what is truly superior here on Urantia? I don't think so, and I believe it is because our thought processes are so easily highjacked by the Lucifer fallacy which states that the Creator is not superior, the creature is, and each creature has his own idea of what works for him. We're flip-flopped and mixed up, and when real superiority comes along, we usually kill it.

Another problem we have in our modern age is the urge for conflict avoidance. Most of us coming out of the last century have had our fill of conflict and sicken at the thought of it. "Can't we all just get along?" is the middle-of-the-road mantra, and that is because we're sick of it all. But conflict really can't be avoided, we just need to learn new skills of dealing with it, and I think modern Western culture is bending over backwards with efforts to protect people from having to deal with conflict rather than teaching them how to deal with it. We need a new philosophy of living for the 21st Century which might help us learn the "right way" to do things, the way that works, the way that recognizes value and what is truly superior.

100:4.1 Religious living is devoted living, and devoted living is creative living, original and spontaneous. New religious insights arise out of conflicts which initiate the choosing of new and better reaction habits in the place of older and inferior reaction patterns. New meanings only emerge amid conflict; and conflict persists only in the face of refusal to espouse the higher values connoted in superior meanings.

#5 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:50 PM

The slant one puts on modern problems (public education system, public policy, political systems, economic systems and the like) depends on one’s frame of reference. There is always a frame. All minds, high or low, have the innate ability create a frame in which to think. Individual people couch their particular frame in words and phrases that have specific tones of meaning in support of the frame. Frames are indispensible to rational intellectual operations, but they are without exception more or less erroneous. (Paper 115)

Partial, incomplete, and evolving intellects would be helpless in the master universe, would be unable to form the first rational thought pattern, were it not for the innate ability of all mind, high or low, to form a universe frame in which to think. If mind cannot fathom conclusions, if it cannot penetrate to true origins, then will such mind unfailingly postulate conclusions and invent origins that it may have a means of logical thought within the frame of these mind-created postulates. And while such universe frames for creature thought are indispensable to rational intellectual operations, they are, without exception, erroneous to a greater or lesser degree. P.1260; http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-115-supreme-being



The will of God does not uniformly prevail in the heart of the God-seeking material mortal, but if the time frame is enlarged beyond the moment to embrace the whole of the first life, then does God's will become increasingly discernible in the spirit fruits which are borne in the lives of the spirit-led children of God. And then, if human life is further enlarged to include the morontia experience, the divine will is observed to shine brighter and brighter in the spiritualizing acts of those creatures of time who have begun to taste the divine delights of experiencing the relationship of the personality of man with the personality of the Universal Father. P.138; http://www.urantia.o...verse-universes



The interpretation of modern problems, and therefore the interpretive solution of modern problems, depends upon three phases of universe reality. I’m sure you remember these.



The true perspective of any reality problem--human or divine, terrestrial or cosmic--can be had only by the full and unprejudiced study and correlation of three phases of universe reality: origin, history, and destiny. The proper understanding of these three experiential realities affords the basis for a wise estimate of the current status.P.215; http://www.urantia.o...y-origin-beings



It’s not easy to figure out these modern problems. I don't have the ability to do so, though I do have a frame of reference. It difficult to see beyond the our current status. Fortunately, we have lots of help, both individually, and institutionally. After all, the Most Highs rule in the kingdoms of men.



All the best,
Meredith

#6 Bonita

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:16 AM

The framework on which people choose to think is not necessarily linked to true spiritual values, which are the same regardless of what framework one chooses to erect. What I think you are referring to in terms of the way people think is merely a personal way to view and process the external world. True values, however, originate in the inner world and are then applied to the outer world according to one's thought framework, which on account of those newly discovered values, must shift and transform. Recall that the Spirit of Truth is always renewing the mind, elevating, transforming and transfiguring it. (143:2.4; 100:7.18) Therefore, the mental framework must adapt to an ever growing and progressing awareness of true values.

Being exposed to the discrepancy between an inferior and superior choice must trigger a search for values within the heart. That is part of discovery which is the first step in the process of discovery, recognition, interpretation and choosing. We are given the opportunity for spiritual growth through the discovery of value and the free-will to choose it. Without the difference between inferior and superior, would we have anything worthwhile to choose? Life would be simply an exercise in uselessness if whatever we choose has the same consequence. It would certainly be boring, which brings me to another purpose for having inequality: variety. So now we have altruism, true values and variety.

48:6.37 Variety is restful; monotony is what wears and exhausts. Day after day is alike — just life or the alternative of death.
56:10.3 Variety is essential to the concept of beauty. The supreme beauty, the height of finite art, is the drama of the unification of the vastness of the cosmic extremes of Creator and creature.
64:6.31 Variety is indispensable to opportunity for the wide functioning of natural selection, differential survival of superior strains.

In regards to interpreting solutions to modern problems according to the three phases of universe reality - origin, history and destiny - one must remember the role that time plays in the ability to understand these three experiential realities. The decision for a given path of conduct in a mature individual begins to escape the fetters of time, as you may recall from page 1295: "In this way does decision-action begin to escape from the fetters of the moving present, while it begins to take on the aspects of past-future significance."

118:6.6 In the mortal life, paths of differential conduct are continually opening and closing, and during the times when choice is possible the human personality is constantly deciding between these many courses of action. Temporal volition is linked to time, and it must await the passing of time to find opportunity for expression. Spiritual volition has begun to taste liberation from the fetters of time, having achieved partial escape from time sequence, and that is because spiritual volition is self-identifying with the will of God.

#7 Julian McGarry

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 06:41 PM

Hello Bonita and Meredith!....another fascinating discussion. It would be a bland world indeed if everything was equal......if there was no superior or inferior. But in today's climate of political correctness, these are dirty words, with strong moral overtones. In the days of our animal past, we strived for superiority because our survival depended on it. That's the way evolution works. For much of the world, little has changed; our motives may be somewhat clouded, but deep down, it is still survival of the fittest. For those well-meaning people who are tired of conflict because they have seen the destructive force of animal competition, the answer lies in making everything homogenous.....artificially through social engineering. We know through our understanding of the UB that this will have disastrous consequences in the long term, which are clearly visible even now. Our Father could have created us already superior, like the citizens of Paradise. But instead he created inequality because he wants us to experience inferiority and superiority and he wants us to strive for perfection....not to gain the advantage over our brother, but to become more and more like our Father. I still have the feeling though that even when we reach the eternity of Paradise, we will still encounter inequality.

I hope I've made sense.....thanks again for the opportunity to contribute!

Julian

#8 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 08:28 PM

I think that the presence of inequalities presents opportunity for chivalry. The way the white race of today puts the former slave race on a pedestal is also a form of chivalry. But like women, some enjoy it and some don't.

My brother was a genius I.Q. and I kept failing math so my mother took me to a psychologist to bring up my math grade. All these years later I asked her why she just didn't spend her money on a math tutor for me. She has no answer. It was easier for her to accept her child had some kind of mental illness then to accept that her child had a low I.Q. in certain areas. She would really have preferred to introduce her daughter as a psych disorder of some kind rather than tell people her daughter was kind of dumb. Mental illness is seen as more equal and politically correct than stupidity. And it makes me wonder how many children are so mislabeled because their I.Q. level. The UB doesn't describe people in psychological terms, but it does discuss their I.Q.'s. Wonder when the world will be brave enough to follow suit.
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#9 Bonita

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:13 AM

Hello Bonita and Meredith!....another fascinating discussion. It would be a bland world indeed if everything was equal......if there was no superior or inferior. But in today's climate of political correctness, these are dirty words, with strong moral overtones. In the days of our animal past, we strived for superiority because our survival depended on it. That's the way evolution works. For much of the world, little has changed; our motives may be somewhat clouded, but deep down, it is still survival of the fittest. For those well-meaning people who are tired of conflict because they have seen the destructive force of animal competition, the answer lies in making everything homogenous.....artificially through social engineering. We know through our understanding of the UB that this will have disastrous consequences in the long term, which are clearly visible even now. Our Father could have created us already superior, like the citizens of Paradise. But instead he created inequality because he wants us to experience inferiority and superiority and he wants us to strive for perfection....not to gain the advantage over our brother, but to become more and more like our Father. I still have the feeling though that even when we reach the eternity of Paradise, we will still encounter inequality.


Thanks Julian, I think your observation is astute. You've offered a fourth reason for the discrepancy between superior and inferior and that is to fuel the urge for perfection. So now we have: altruism, true values, variety and perfection hunger. I'd like to propose a fifth reason and that is a mechanism by which to identify and learn about vanity and pride.

As you say, it is politically, socially and morally improper to label anything or anybody as superior or inferior. Do you think that this is because we, as a people, are becoming more sensitive to the problems of vanity and pride that so often accompanies the position of superiority? Although everyone wants to be superior, no one wants to be considered vain or proud because of it, at least not those with a conscience. Perhaps it is a badge of honor for us that we are becoming more aware of the dangers of superiority, especially viewing through the lens of horror of the past two centuries, the pain of which is still fresh in so many psyches. No one wants to make those mistakes again.

However, I think that it is high time that we progress from dwelling on the dangers of superiority and focus more on the responsibilities of superiority, and that requires wisdom. I've always felt that wisdom is the watchword for the new millennium, perhaps even a new symbol. Superiority is more palatable and respectable if it is accompanied by wisdom. But, I don't think wisdom can be arrived at without grace. So, perhaps a sixth reason for inequality would be to learn how to be gracious. TUB tells us that the Paradise Deities bestow divine love and gracious condescension on us (40:0.9 ). Condescension usually means patronizing superiority, but gracious condescension is altogether different; it involves service and ministry, something we all need to learn about.

And allow me to propose additional reasons for inequality that accompanies gracious service and ministry: the comprehension of the meaning of justice and mercy.

2:4.1 Mercy is simply justice tempered by that wisdom which grows out of perfection of knowledge and the full recognition of the natural weaknesses and environmental handicaps of finite creatures.


Here's the list so far:
  • Altruism
  • True values
  • Variety
  • Perfection hunger
  • Pride
  • Grace
  • Wisdom
  • Service/ministry
  • Justice
  • Mercy


#10 -Scott-

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:28 AM

From a material standpoint our entire race is "inferior" to a normal human being on another planet, so we shouldn't get carried away when they talk about how some groups of humans have slight advantage's. Imagine if we were suddenly transported to a world where human beings lived 500 years. Man that would be some HUMBLE PIE :o
If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#11 ubizmo

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:16 AM

As you say, it is politically, socially and morally improper to label anything or anybody as superior or inferior. Do you think that this is because we, as a people, are becoming more sensitive to the problems of vanity and pride that so often accompanies the position of superiority? Although everyone wants to be superior, no one wants to be considered vain or proud because of it, at least not those with a conscience. Perhaps it is a badge of honor for us that we are becoming more aware of the dangers of superiority, especially viewing through the lens of horror of the past two centuries, the pain of which is still fresh in so many psyches. No one wants to make those mistakes again.


I think the problem with these terms is that they have been used to justify mistreatment of people, and it's been going on for a lot longer than two centuries, with no end in sight.

Another problem is that the words "inferior" and "superior" are such blunt instruments. Comparing two people, two races, two civilizations. or even two wines, one of the least informative things one might say is that one is inferior or superior.

#12 Bonita

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:53 AM

Another problem is that the words "inferior" and "superior" are such blunt instruments. Comparing two people, two races, two civilizations. or even two wines, one of the least informative things one might say is that one is inferior or superior.


That's one of the beauties of TUB, in that it attempts to give us a little insight into what constitutes superior. Once we learn what superior is, it's easy to identify inferior. The problem becomes learning how to deal with inferior as our superior Father would. And as you say, mistreatment is not an option for a progressing soul; I believe that TUB also gently suggests that the opposite sentiment of pity is not an option for a progressing soul either.

Here is where I think that modern society has come to a crossroads, realizing that mistreatment is abhorrent but unable to come up with a satisfactory alternative to indulgent pity. We've come to the realization that we must care for the unfortunate, but the category we now call unfortunate, encompasses almost everybody. I see this as a potentially dangerous trend. Although one might say that if everyone is considered unfortunate, then we will all eventually realize that we have to care for one another. But it could easily go a different way long before we arrive at that conclusion. What will happen when all the strong and superior disappear leaving the weak and inferior unfortunates without someone to supply their every want and need? How long before the remnants of the superior decide it's safer to camouflage themselves or separate themselves defensively in order to avoid being preyed upon? Oh unhappy day!

71:4.16 The appearance of genuine brotherhood signifies that a social order has arrived in which all men delight in bearing one another’s burdens; they actually desire to practice the golden rule. But such an ideal society cannot be realized when either the weak or the wicked lie in wait to take unfair and unholy advantage of those who are chiefly actuated by devotion to the service of truth, beauty, and goodness. In such a situation only one course is practical: The “golden rulers” may establish a progressive society in which they live according to their ideals while maintaining an adequate defense against their benighted fellows who might seek either to exploit their pacific predilections or to destroy their advancing civilization.

From a material standpoint our entire race is "inferior" to a normal human being on another planet, so we shouldn't get carried away when they talk about how some groups of humans have slight advantage's. Imagine if we were suddenly transported to a world where human beings lived 500 years. Man that would be some HUMBLE PIE :o


So, here is number eleven on my list of reasons for inequality: Humility

#13 Guest_As-Above-So-Below_*

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 02:15 PM

, , , .
71:4.16 The appearance of genuine brotherhood signifies that a social order has arrived in which all men delight in bearing one another’s burdens; they actually desire to practice the golden rule. But such an ideal society cannot be realized when either the weak or the wicked lie in wait to take unfair and unholy advantage of those who are chiefly actuated by devotion to the service of truth, beauty, and goodness. In such a situation only one course is practical: The “golden rulers” may establish a progressive society in which they live according to their ideals while maintaining an adequate defense against their benighted fellows who might seek either to exploit their pacific predilections or to destroy their advancing civilization.
. . . .


Bonita:
It would seem by the selection of the quote above, that the superior can uplift the inferior by use of the "golden rule" not dominating over the inferior reminding them that they are inferior but, showing what is superior without using a non-pacific attitude to what the inferior have achieved to date. If one continues to emphasis superior over inferior and non-achievable than inferior becomes superior by default.

#14 Bonita

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 03:17 PM

If one continues to emphasis superior over inferior and non-achievable than inferior becomes superior by default.


I think that's what I was getting at in an earlier post, but I'm not sure because it's not clear to me that I understand what you wrote. Would you mind rephrasing or elaborating on that thought?

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 06:39 PM

I think that's what I was getting at in an earlier post, but I'm not sure because it's not clear to me that I understand what you wrote. Would you mind rephrasing or elaborating on that thought?


Bonita: In your statement below, you have associated Our Father with having to deal with the inferior’s and, that “The problem” is “learning”. Therefore, could the following apply to the Father: “There are no bad students, only bad teachers”?

. . . . Once we learn what superior is, it's easy to identify inferior. The problem becomes learning how to deal with inferior as our superior Father would. . . . .


I think not but, and since a book cannot teach, it must be the reader’s responsibility to learn via the following edited quote:

(1966.5) 182:2.5 . . . .Jesus, addressing him, said: “In all haste, go to Abner at Philadelphia and say: ‘The Master sends greetings of peace to you and says that the hour has come when he will be delivered into the hands of his enemies, who will put him to death, but that he will rise from the dead and appear to you shortly, before he goes to the Father, and that he will then give you guidance to the time when the new teacher shall come to live in your hearts.’” . . . .


Also, note that Jesus said ‘hearts’ not minds, so this reference would not imply the Thought Adjuster. In the following quote, where “the Son is Mercy” and that “Mercy is applied love, the Father’s love in action in the person of his Eternal Son” would indicate that the method of teaching would come from the Son as well. Since Jesus was looked upon as a teacher what is written in the UB as being said by Him, can be used as a teaching aid. Teaching supremacy over inferiority or, even identifying a difference between the high and the low, goes against what I understand that Jesus taught.

(75.10) 6:3.5 God is love, the Son is mercy. Mercy is applied love, the Father’s love in action in the person of his Eternal Son. The love of this universal Son is likewise universal. As love is comprehended on a sex planet, the love of God is more comparable to the love of a father, while the love of the Eternal Son is more like the affection of a mother. Crude, indeed, are such illustrations, but I employ them in the hope of conveying to the human mind the thought that there is a difference, not in divine content but in quality and technique of expression, between the love of the Father and the love of the Son.


By associating Our Father with supremacy you are also associating the word supreme with perfection. Although, it has been said that we should be perfect, (see below) it should not imply that perfection comes at the cost of “the golden rule”.

(21.3) 1:0.3 The enlightened worlds all recognize and worship the Universal Father, the eternal maker and infinite upholder of all creation. The will creatures of universe upon universe have embarked upon the long, long Paradise journey, the fascinating struggle of the eternal adventure of attaining God the Father. The transcendent goal of the children of time is to find the eternal God, to comprehend the divine nature, to recognize the Universal Father. God-knowing creatures have only one supreme ambition, just one consuming desire, and that is to become, as they are in their spheres, like him as he is in his Paradise perfection of personality and in his universal sphere of righteous supremacy. From the Universal Father who inhabits eternity there has gone forth the supreme mandate, “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect.” In love and mercy the messengers of Paradise have carried this divine exhortation down through the ages and out through the universes, even to such lowly animal-origin creatures as the human races of Urantia.


So, in your originating subject statement, your implication that superior/inferior as right/wrong, why not just say -- in order to be first (superior) you must be last (understand inferiority) with the least of my inferior children.

(75.7) 6:3.2 The Eternal Son is the great mercy minister to all creation. Mercy is the essence of the Son’s spiritual character. The mandates of the Eternal Son, as they go forth over the spirit circuits of the Second Source and Center, are keyed in tones of mercy.

(75.8) 6:3.3 To comprehend the love of the Eternal Son, you must first perceive its divine source, the Father, who is love, and then behold the unfolding of this infinite affection in the far-flung ministry of the Infinite Spirit and his almost limitless host of ministering personalities.


Frankly, it reminded me of the Mother Superior at the Catholic school I attended for a short time while growing up in Canada.

(2090.5) 196:1.4 The common people heard Jesus gladly, and they will again respond to the presentation of his sincere human life of consecrated religious motivation if such truths shall again be proclaimed to the world. The people heard him gladly because he was one of them, an unpretentious layman; the world’s greatest religious teacher was indeed a layman.



#16 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:24 PM

Yes, the world equates inferior with mistreatment. If someone is an inferior then it must mean they are mistreated. But how many people treat their dogs like royalty? Just because the dog is not equal doesn't mean it will be mistreated. It always amazed me when I learned that back in Jesus' day, women like Mary were treated so well by men. I mean, these women had no rights whatsoever and yet they were happier than me and most modern women I know. I thought women with no rights would get smacked around constantly.
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#17 Bonita

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:09 AM

Bonita: In your statement below, you have associated Our Father with having to deal with the inferior’s and, that “The problem” is “learning”. Therefore, could the following apply to the Father: “There are no bad students, only bad teachers”?


What I attempted to say was that the golden rule can be applied in different ways. The way that Jesus taught was to treat others as God, a loving Father, would treat them. God, being no respecter of persons, would love an inferior person just as much as a superior person. This is what we must learn to do, but we have a limited understanding on how to love. None of us are capable of the full unconditional love our Father has. This is what we are in the process of learning, how to live according to the 6th level of the golden rule, the spiritual level.

p1651 6. The spiritual level. And then last, but greatest of all, we attain the level of spirit insight and spiritual interpretation which impels us to recognize in this rule of life the divine command to treat all men as we conceive God would treat them. That is the universe ideal of human relationships. And this is your attitude toward all such problems when your supreme desire is ever to do the Father's will. I would, therefore, that you should do to all men that which you know I would do to them in like circumstances.

Also, note that Jesus said ‘hearts’ not minds, so this reference would not imply the Thought Adjuster. In the following quote, where “the Son is Mercy” and that “Mercy is applied love, the Father’s love in action in the person of his Eternal Son” would indicate that the method of teaching would come from the Son as well. Since Jesus was looked upon as a teacher what is written in the UB as being said by Him, can be used as a teaching aid. Teaching supremacy over inferiority or, even identifying a difference between the high and the low, goes against what I understand that Jesus taught.


First of all, the heart is a part of the mind. Surely you do not think that by heart, Jesus meant the four-chambered pumping muscle in your chest! The heart, is that feature of the mind that is in contact with spiritual influences, the discerning portion of the mind that is capable of discovering, recognizing, interpreting and choosing value. And as for the Thought Adjuster, you might recall that Michael's Spirit of Truth is the Spirit of both the Father and the Son. So, it does not make any difference at all who you believe teaches or leads you, since they function as ONE.

194:2.3 This bestowal of the Son’s spirit effectively prepared all normal men’s minds for the subsequent universal bestowal of the Father’s spirit (the Adjuster) upon all mankind. In a certain sense, this Spirit of Truth is the spirit of both the Universal Father and the Creator Son.

194:2.16 4. The spirit of the Universal Father and the Creator Son — the Spirit of Truth, generally regarded as the spirit of the Universe Son.


By associating Our Father with supremacy you are also associating the word supreme with perfection. Although, it has been said that we should be perfect, (see below) it should not imply that perfection comes at the cost of “the golden rule”.


As I said above, there are six levels to the golden rule and as we grow in perfection we grow in our ability to appreciate the 6th level of the golden rule, the spiritual level. Said Jesus:

Let me now teach you concerning the differing levels of meaning attached to the interpretation of this rule of living, this admonition to `do to others that which you desire others to do to you':
1. The level of the flesh. Such a purely selfish and lustful interpretation would be well exemplified by the supposition of your question.
2. The level of the feelings. This plane is one level higher than that of the flesh and implies that sympathy and pity would enhance one's interpretation of this rule of living.
3. The level of mind. Now come into action the reason of mind and the intelligence of experience. Good judgment dictates that such a rule of living should be interpreted in consonance with the highest idealism embodied in the nobility of profound self-respect.
4. The level of brotherly love. Still higher is discovered the level of unselfish devotion to the welfare of one's fellows. On this higher plane of wholehearted social service growing out of the consciousness of the fatherhood of God and the consequent recognition of the brotherhood of man, there is discovered a new and far more beautiful interpretation of this basic rule of life.
5. The moral level. And then when you attain true philosophic levels of interpretation, when you have real insight into the rightness and wrongness of things, when you perceive the eternal fitness of human relationships, you will begin to view such a problem of interpretation as you would imagine a high-minded, idealistic, wise, and impartial third person would so view and interpret such an injunction as applied to your personal problems of adjustment to your life situations.
6. The spiritual level. And then last, but greatest of all, we attain the level of spirit insight and spiritual interpretation which impels us to recognize in this rule of life the divine command to treat all men as we conceive God would treat them. That is the universe ideal of human relationships. And this is your attitude toward all such problems when your supreme desire is ever to do the Father's will. I would, therefore, that you should do to all men that which you know I would do to them in like circumstances. p1650:02-1651:04


So, in your originating subject statement, your implication that superior/inferior as right/wrong, why not just say -- in order to be first (superior) you must be last (understand inferiority) with the least of my inferior children.


Sounds good. It's essentially what I've been saying in all of my subsequent posts.

Yes, the world equates inferior with mistreatment. If someone is an inferior then it must mean they are mistreated. But how many people treat their dogs like royalty? Just because the dog is not equal doesn't mean it will be mistreated. It always amazed me when I learned that back in Jesus' day, women like Mary were treated so well by men. I mean, these women had no rights whatsoever and yet they were happier than me and most modern women I know. I thought women with no rights would get smacked around constantly.


Jessica, it has to do with respect. Jewish men were taught to respect their parents, both mother and father. They were also taught to respect their wives, the mothers of their children, so that they could teach their children to respect her as well. It had something to do with the ten commandments.

#18 -Scott-

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:29 PM

The “golden rulers” may establish a progressive society in which they live according to their ideals while maintaining an adequate defense against their benighted fellows who might seek either to exploit their pacific predilections or to destroy their advancing civilization.

The first thing that went up with the garden of eden and Dalamantia was a wall hahaha. Obviously they were a superior type of human to all others.


We are all inferior humans compared to an average mortal so its not that big of a deal.

Edited by boomshuka, 09 March 2012 - 05:30 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#19 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 03:10 PM

Thought I'd transfer the current end of the rebellion thread back to this contemporary discussion on the same topic - below are comments and UB quotes by Bonita and As Above as they relate to this fascinating topic thread within "Progressive Civilization". I'm getting a little tired of my name tagged on the main page with "indigo children" of all things. I will opine that we are either way too far down the road of "progress" in our own twisted and tormented fashion or we are not nearly far enough up the road of reason and altruism to embrace many of the common sense measures which would surely pay handsome social dividends if implemented. We are very paranoid of the "slippery slope" potentials in reasonable and measured solutions to most of our problems...this argument of fear delivers the partisonship log jam of inaction and indecision within any single nation which is multiplied into exponential forms of planetary disagreements. And yet, if one believes as I do, we must evolve and progress our civilization by human means and quit waiting for "deliverence" from on high to fix that which we broke. We are certainly not alone in any way or effort....but we retard the work of our unseen friends or interfere with it so it is morphed into less than its potential....the least we could do is cooperate and initiate it seems to me.

What can be done to increase fraternity, uplift society, and make progress as a planet? Or, like the country on a neighboring planet, is isolationism and protectionism a valid strategy? This "segregation" seems to be given without any criticism of the strategy. Our world is growing into further integration of communications and economic systems, and this is accelerating now. I feel the isolationist opportunity may have sailed away already for us. I understand this is an exercise in futility in some ways as we UB believers do not yet rule the world (haha), but nothing wrong with exercising the muscle between our ears a little regarding what TUB teaches we might have done or might still do to improve progress and protect it too. Peace.

As-Within-So-Without, on 13 August 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

If parents cannot provide for their young and suffer the sight of those who “have” and they “have not”, while enduring the sight of sight of sickness and death, we cannot put fault on the so-called God-less, if those who “have” found God, segregate themselves from those who “have not” found God. Having or not having a religion will not put a meal on the table or cloth and protect your children from those who just don’t give a dame, and administrate the world as if it is theirs to do with what they will. So, if you wish to reduce or eliminate sin and evil, you may need to start with changing the reason behind its cause which leads to effect.


Bonita responded:

Segregation is a critical feature of the revelation. The first moral decision of Andon and Fonta was to segregate themselves from their inferior primate tribe. When the Planetary Prince established Dalamatia and when Adam and Eve established the Garden, there were rules for careful segregation between superior and inferior. And TUB tells us in the following quote that there are certain circumstances even today when the righteous should segregate and protect themselves from inferior groups.

71:4.16 The appearance of genuine brotherhood signifies that a social order has arrived in which all men delight in bearing one another's burdens; they actually desire to practice the golden rule. But such an ideal society cannot be realized when either the weak or the wicked lie in wait to take unfair and unholy advantage of those who are chiefly actuated by devotion to the service of truth, beauty, and goodness. In such a situation only one course is practical: The "golden rulers" may establish a progressive society in which they live according to their ideals while maintaining an adequate defense against their benighted fellows who might seek either to exploit their pacific predilections or to destroy their advancing civilization.


And As Above posted:

4. Progressive Civilization

(804.1) 71:4.1 Economics, society, and government must evolve if they are to remain. Static conditions on an evolutionary world are indicative of decay; only those institutions which move forward with the evolutionary stream persist.

(804.2) 71:4.2 The progressive program of an expanding civilization embraces:
(804.3) 71:4.3 1. Preservation of individual liberties.
(804.4) 71:4.4 2. Protection of the home.
(804.5) 71:4.5 3. Promotion of economic security.
(804.6) 71:4.6 4. Prevention of disease.
(804.7) 71:4.7 5. Compulsory education.
(804.8) 71:4.8 6. Compulsory employment.
(804.9) 71:4.9 7. Profitable utilization of leisure.
(804.10) 71:4.10 8. Care of the unfortunate.
(804.11) 71:4.11 9. Race improvement.
(804.12) 71:4.12 10. Promotion of science and art.
(804.13) 71:4.13 11. Promotion of philosophy — wisdom.
(804.14) 71:4.14 12. Augmentation of cosmic insight — spirituality.

(804.15) 71:4.15 And this progress in the arts of civilization leads directly to the realization of the highest human and divine goals of mortal endeavor — the social achievement of the brotherhood of man and the personal status of God-consciousness, which becomes revealed in the supreme desire of every individual to do the will of the Father in heaven.

(804.16) 71:4.16 The appearance of genuine brotherhood signifies that a social order has arrived in which all men delight in bearing one another’s burdens; they actually desire to practice the golden rule. But such an ideal society cannot be realized when either the weak or the wicked lie in wait to take unfair and unholy advantage of those who are chiefly actuated by devotion to the service of truth, beauty, and goodness. In such a situation only one course is practical: The “golden rulers” may establish a progressive society in which they live according to their ideals while maintaining an adequate defense against their benighted fellows who might seek either to exploit their pacific predilections or to destroy their advancing civilization.

(804.17) 71:4.17 Idealism can never survive on an evolving planet if the idealists in each generation permit themselves to be exterminated by the baser orders of humanity. And here is the great test of idealism: Can an advanced society maintain that military preparedness which renders it secure from all attack by its war-loving neighbors without yielding to the temptation to employ this military strength in offensive operations against other peoples for purposes of selfish gain or national aggrandizement? National survival demands preparedness, and religious idealism alone can prevent the prostitution of preparedness into aggression. Only love, brotherhood, can prevent the strong from oppressing the weak.

Back to the Forum...............................
Peace be upon you."

#20 Bonita

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 04:53 PM

So what's your point exactly?




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