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#21 Julian McGarry

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 07:40 AM

You are making perfect sense Bonita! I look forward to your next instalment! Thank you!

#22 Bonita

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:11 AM

Thanks Julian, me making sense on topics such as this is quite rare. It's a pleasure.

I'm not sure what direction you want to go with this, but based upon your last question, I assume that the role of the personality in making up a well-balanced and unified person would be of the utmost importance to a psychologist. Somewhere in TUB we are told that psychology is really the study of another person's religion. Oh yes, here it is, it always makes me laugh:

p1135:3 103:6.1 Theology is always the study of your religion; the study of another's religion psychology.

So why do I bring this up? When God gifts us with a personality, he never sends it alone; we are also given a host of spiritual influences and ministrations to guide it. There is a measure of over control, even in regards to the precious sovereignty of free will. The personality is simply a pattern of organizational power; its power is co-creational, not creational. Creational power goes to the Creator Son's personality, but not to our order of personality. And incidentally, it is my belief that Lucifer coveted Michael's form of personality, but I digress. Because the power of our human personality is co-creational, it requires a creative spiritual partner. God is generous in supplying us with such according to the level of mind function.

Personality is a totally unique pattern of organizational power bestowed upon a living energy system, in our case, a human-animal energy system. Systems are made up of parts and one of those parts is mind. Mind is not just electromagnetic energy synthesized and processed by neurons, it is also a spiritual phenomenon. And as the adjutant mind spirits make gradual and progressive contact with the individual mind, spirit forces begin to make impact and religion begins to function within the individual. Morality, conscience, and ethics become formative influences which inevitably set up choices for the personality to exercise its power upon.

How the personality chooses determines the degree of organization, integration and unification of the various parts. Of the many factors that make up a person, one is inherited character urges which produce certain emotional reactions to external stimuli. These emotional reactions create an interior environment or attitude. When there is conflict within the interior environment, between an animal urge and a higher spiritual urge, the mind must sort it out, and the personality must choose. Will it choose an animal level attitude with an animal level outer reaction or will it struggle to discover a higher spiritual influence that may result in a better attitude and outer reaction thereby improving the character? Will the personality lean towards a wholesome, spiritually progressive choice or rely on basic inherited and habitual animal urges?

This is actually simplistic because there are other influences I didn't mention such as what we learn from our environment, from parents, social groups, education, organized religion and culture. But one's personal religion, one's interior environment, has at its root a spiritual source; the personality itself has a spiritual origin and the mind, having reached the level responsive to the spirit of worship and wisdom, also has God himself as a motivating spiritual force. And this is true regardless of the person's beliefs concerning it. The personality has a tremendously predominant urge to organize all the component parts of its energy system around a spiritual core, eventually entirely dedicating its precious power of choice to that sacred nucleus. This is the central motivation of life and when it is permitted to function this way, there results a wholesomely balanced, consistently symmetrical and beautifully unified person.

In the case of my father, his willful determination could have resulted in disastrous behavior had he not allowed his basic character urge to follow his inner spiritual influences. Because it was so strong in him, he could have chosen methods to express it that were destructive, but he always seemed to choose the morally fragrant option discovered by him within his spiritually influenced mind. My father lost his father when he was 6 years old and his mother abandoned him at the age of 8. He willfully determined that he would not feel sorry for himself, but instead sought out work so he could afford the 25¢ a week charge for a bunk, a meal and a bath in the local Salvation Army. He did not whine and cry; he did not steal; he did not beg. He got up hours early and worked on a milk delivery truck before school. Others, seeing his industriousness, helped him along, offering him odd jobs after school and giving him hand-me-down clothes, and the milk man let him drink as much milk as he liked. He did this until he got a job at the coal mines when he was 12. Not being old enough to work within the mines, and still trying to go to school, he worked in the yards where he eventually learned how to drive the coal trucks. At the age of 13 he quit school to drive the delivery trucks in town full time. He did this without becoming bitter and resentful and without a feeling of entitlement that could have been part of a weaker personality. He was making choices that helped unify and strengthen his personality. Realizing this ever growing power within him, he did not choose to exploit it either. He never put others at a disadvantage, never used or manipulated anyone in order to make progress.

So, how am I doing so far? Is this the direction you wanted to go?

#23 Julian McGarry

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 07:51 AM

You are doing very well Bonita....thanks for being so generous! Your father sounds like a truly amazing man....you must be very proud of him.

There are just two points I wish to make at this point:

Given that the personality is an exclusive and direct bestowal of the Universal Father, and that "mortal man is endowed with free will, the power of choice, and though such choosing is not absolute, nevertheless, it is relatively final on the finite level and concerning the destiny of the choosing personality" (P1300:0).....given all of this, what is it that determines whether " the personality leans toward a wholesome, spiritually progressive choice or relies on basic inherited and habitual animal urges?" It seems that the personality possesses nothing innately that determines what choice we make only our ability to make a choice! I guess this is a classic philosophical question....why personal beings like Lucifer chose rebellion rather than loyalty to Michael....it wasn't that they were given defective personalities.....so what was it?











The second point I would like to make was concerning a statement you made about your father: "He was making choices that helped unify and strengthen his personality". Did you mean to say that his personality was making choices that helped unify and strengthen his body, mind and soul? P.9 - §1 The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. Personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality.

Oh, sorry...just one more question: given the preceding quote which describes the personality as the one changeless reality in a creature's experience, what does it mean on P1301:4 when it refers to evolving personality? (Subpersonal living things indicate mind activating energy-matter, first as physical controllers, and then as adjutant mind-spirits. Personality endowment comes from the Father and imparts unique prerogatives of choice to the living system. But if personality has the prerogative of exercising volitional choice of reality identification, and if this is a true and free choice, then must evolving personality also have the possible choice of becoming self-confusing, self-disrupting, and self-destroying. The possibility of cosmic self-destruction cannot be avoided if the evolving personality is to be truly free in the exercise of finite will.)

Bonita, you don't have to answer all three questions....I'm being a bit greedy!

#24 Bonita

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:41 AM

Bonita, you don't have to answer all three questions....I'm being a bit greedy!


I'll confess that I'm a bit greedy too. Every time I attempt to answer a question I learn something new. So we're both learning, even though I come off sounding like I know what I'm talking about. I only know a few things and I'm certain of even fewer.

I believe your original question was how can the personality unify if it does not change. This is similar to your question today as to how the personality can evolve if it does not change. And this is also the same as the question of how the personality can become more real as it traverses the psychic circles. What they mean, I believe, is that the personality itself does not change, but its expression as a functional, experiential universe phenomenon changes. The human personality is only potential in actual reality manifestation; it becomes more real as it begins to actualize its potential through experience.

5:6.6 Capacity for divine personality is inherent in the prepersonal Adjuster; capacity for human personality is potential in the cosmic-mind endowment of the human being. But the experiential personality of mortal man is not observable as an active and functional reality until after the material life vehicle of the mortal creature has been touched by the liberating divinity of the Universal Father, being thus launched upon the seas of experience as a self-conscious and a (relatively) self-determinative and self-creative personality. The material self is truly and unqualifiedly personal.

There is also this quote which states that the personality leaves a trail of actualized reality as it progresses. It's not that the personality changes, it is the evolution of experiential reality of that personality which is changing. And if this change ceases, the personality would also cease to function as a real identity in the universe.

p1286:4 117:5.6 The progressing personality leaves a trail of actualized reality as it passes through the ascending levels of the universes. Be they mind, spirit, or energy, the growing creations of time and space are modified by the progression of personality through their domains.

There are just two points I wish to make at this point: Given that the personality is an exclusive and direct bestowal of the Universal Father, and that "mortal man is endowed with free will, the power of choice, and though such choosing is not absolute, nevertheless, it is relatively final on the finite level and concerning the destiny of the choosing personality" (P1300:0).....given all of this, what is it that determines whether " the personality leans toward a wholesome, spiritually progressive choice or relies on basic inherited and habitual animal urges?" It seems that the personality possesses nothing innately that determines what choice we make only our ability to make a choice! I guess this is a classic philosophical question....why personal beings like Lucifer chose rebellion rather than loyalty to Michael....it wasn't that they were given defective personalities.....so what was it?



Don't forget the personality's source. Besides having power to unify and choose, the personality has other features unique to it. In the beginning of Paper 112 there is a list of personality characteristics. #9 tells us that personality has a built-in morality awareness. It essentially pings relational morality with other personalities. There is an automatic morality response between persons evidenced by the personality's high source. The individual personality is patterned after the original divine and altruistic personality.

The other thing about personality is that it always strives to unify and since spirit always dominates mind and matter, the direction of that striving is inevitably toward spirit unless hindered or halted by the all powerful free will.

42:12.15 Mind universally dominates matter, even as it is in turn responsive to the ultimate overcontrol of spirit. And with mortal man, only that mind which freely submits itself to the spirit direction can hope to survive the mortal time-space existence as an immortal child of the eternal spirit world of the Supreme, the Ultimate, and the Absolute: the Infinite.

Yet another reason why personality may preferentially opt for the more wholesome choice is evidenced by #6 which states that personality discloses only qualitative response to the personality circuit. Quality is spiritual; it has to do with value. Essentially, when a personality refuses to respond to value, it is more or less destroying itself. And I mean destroying as figuratively since the pattern of personality cannot itself be destroyed; it is the ability to unify its human system (mind, body and soul) as an ongoing universe identity that is destroyed. Once the personality opts for non-quality/non-value, the parts of its system lose their resistance to material gravity becoming more material and less spiritual. Remember that personality is pattern and pattern is unresponsive to gravity because it has paid all of its gravity debt. (0:6.11) Personality preferentially responds to the quality of the personality circuit of the Father. If the personality is unwilling to respond to value (God's will), it cannot function as intended; it's more or less allowing the natural forces of the material world to dominate instead. Personality does not actually control its individual parts, it configures, organizes, integrates and unifies them along the pattern of its origin. If it fails to do this, if fails to be.

12:8.5 As the mind of any personality in the universe becomes more spiritual — Godlike — it becomes less responsive to material gravity. Reality, measured by physical-gravity response, is the antithesis of reality as determined by quality of spirit content. Physical-gravity action is a quantitative determiner of nonspirit energy; spiritual-gravity action is the qualitative measure of the living energy of divinity.

The second point I would like to make was concerning a statement you made about your father: "He was making choices that helped unify and strengthen his personality". Did you mean to say that his personality was making choices that helped unify and strengthen his body, mind and soul? P.9 - §1 The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. Personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality.


I should have said, choices that helped unify his personality thereby making it more real, and choices that strengthened his character. Here's another quote for consideration:

112:1.18 In the human organism the summation of its parts constitutes selfhood — individuality — but such a process has nothing whatever to do with personality, which is the unifier of all these factors as related to cosmic realities.

My father's choices moved him along the psychic circles to new levels of personality realization (personality becoming a reality as an experiential phenomenon in the universe), which is the same as personality evolution and the phenomenon known as "the evolution of dominance" (112:2.15 ). My father's choices left a trail of actualized personality potentials. As a result, many of my father's choices undoubtedly contributed to the growth and evolution of the Supreme in terms of power-personality synthesis (56:6.3).

Any topic like this cannot hope to cover everything. I'm sure I left some things out, muddled some things up and perhaps got some things wrong. So time to take a another breather and do some sifting. Tell me what needs clarification and what you think is right or wrong with my analysis.

#25 menno

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:26 PM

Here is another piece of the Personality Puzzle:


Page 1236 112:6.3 To a certain extent, the appearance of the material body-form is responsive to the character of the personality identity; the physical body does, to a limited degree, reflect something of the inherent nature of the personality. Still more so does the morontia form. In the physical life, mortals may be outwardly beautiful though inwardly unlovely; in the morontia life, and increasingly on its higher levels, the personality form will vary directly in accordance with the nature of the inner person. On the spiritual level, outward form and inner nature begin to approximate complete identification, which grows more and more perfect on higher and higher spirit levels.

#26 Julian McGarry

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:10 AM

Once again Bonita you've done a marvellous job explaining something that is very complex! Thank you! When I think about the personality, I find myself having to use analogies or metaphors to help me get my head around the layers of meaning embodied in the concept. For example, sometimes I think of the personality as a divine pattern or DNA.....each of us has a totally unique divine code which never changes. Just as we, as humans, have a unique genetic code at conception which doesn't change even though our bodies and minds are undergoing constant change, likewise, our divine pattern or personality doesn't change regardless of how many different levels of reality we pass through. It is not a perfect analogy because it is non-inheritable....but in some ways it fits! Our DNA effectively organises the entire organism.....it provides a blueprint that enables us to function as a complex energy system. In like manner, our personality unifies, coordinates, and organises the constituent parts of what we call the self. But I am fully aware that the personality is much more than this and that is what makes this discussion so difficult. I guess the question that still perplexes me is why a personality would refuse to respond to value, to effectively destroy itself rather than respond to the Father's personality circuit. We are told that it has nothing to do with the disadvantages that may attend our circumstances of birth:

P.69 - §8 Eternal survival of personality is wholly dependent on the choosing of the mortal mind, whose decisions determine the survival potential of the immortal soul. When the mind believes God and the soul knows God, and when, with the fostering Adjuster, they all desire God, then is survival assured. Limitations of intellect, curtailment of education, deprivation of culture, impoverishment of social status, even inferiority of the human standards of morality resulting from the unfortunate lack of educational, cultural, and social advantages, cannot invalidate the presence of the divine spirit in such unfortunate and humanly handicapped but believing individuals. The indwelling of the Mystery Monitor constitutes P.70 - §0 the inception and insures the possibility of the potential of growth and survival of the immortal soul.

So is it something that only the Father knows about, or perhaps even the Ancients of Days, who make the final adjudication regarding future survival or annihilation?

#27 Bonita

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:27 AM

I think it's similar to suicide. Who really understands that? We can only guess and point to patterns of erroneous thinking that statistically lead to that result. Similarly, we should be able to detect patterns of erroneous thinking that will lead to a failure of survival. It is a challenge, but one I'm certain that man will have to rise to at some point for the sake of a progressive civilization.

117:4.4 The human personality can truly destroy individuality of creaturehood, and though all that was worth while in the life of such a cosmic suicide will persist, these qualities will not persist as an individual creature. The Supreme will again find expression in the creatures of the universes but never again as that particular person; the unique personality of a nonascender returns to the Supreme as a drop of water returns to the sea.

We are told that the personality is co-creational; therefore it can choose what principles or values it wants to co-create with. It can co-create with true values and produce something with eternal worth, something real; or, it can co-create with false principles and produce something destructive and unreal.


118:7.7 Personality endowment comes from the Father and imparts unique prerogatives of choice to the living system. But if personality has the prerogative of exercising volitional choice of reality identification, and if this is a true and free choice, then must evolving personality also have the possible choice of becoming self-confusing, self-disrupting, and self-destroying. The possibility of cosmic self-destruction cannot be avoided if the evolving personality is to be truly free in the exercise of finite will.

TUB tells us, in terms of value, all we are capable of is: discovering, recognizing, interpreting and choosing. I believe that discovery is natural in all persons who have reached the mind level in which the spirits of worship and wisdom are functioning. Discovery is an inevitable part of our endowment and I believe that recognition may also be natural due to the presence of the Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth and Thought Adjuster. But, how one interprets values which are discovered and recognized is very much dependent upon other issues such as intellect, heredity, education, cultural and social situations, morality, etc.. Interpretation can go very much awry due to erroneous and/or self-centered thinking.

133:5.7 Quantity may be identified as a fact, thus becoming a scientific uniformity. Quality, being a matter of mind interpretation, represents an estimate of values, and must, therefore, remain an experience of the individual.

111:3.6 Mind knows quantity, reality, meanings. But quality — values — is felt. That which feels is the mutual creation of mind, which knows, and the associated spirit, which reality-izes.


The mind really is where everything takes place; it is the final arena of choice. Personality choice is highly dependent upon a healthy and well-balanced mind, and the choosing of value is also dependent upon willingness to be spirit led.

100:3.4 Meaning is something which experience adds to value; it is the appreciative consciousness of values. An isolated and purely selfish pleasure may connote a virtual devaluation of meanings, a meaningless enjoyment bordering on relative evil. Values are experiential when realities are meaningful and mentally associated, when such relationships are recognized and appreciated by mind.

130:4.8 Misadaptation of self-conscious life to the universe results in cosmic disharmony. Final divergence of personality will from the trend of the universes terminates in intellectual isolation, personality segregation.

Erroneous thinking is potentially evil, and when consciously chosen, is sinful. For millennia we have had the orthodoxy of religion and/or state dictate what thinking is considered erroneous and what is not. It is only recently that man has truly ventured out into the realm of freethinking, and likewise, there must be a certain amount of confusion as a result. I believe that TUB has been given to us at this time in order to lessen this confusion.

#28 Alina

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:36 AM

Hi all! :)
The following quotes seem very impressive and disturbing. Could someone make a comment?
Thanks!


(1207.5) 110:4.5There exists a vast gulf between the human and the divine, between man and God. The Urantia races are so largely electrically and chemically controlled, so highly animallike in their common behavior, so emotional in their ordinary reactions, that it becomes exceedingly difficult for the Monitors to guide and direct them. You are so devoid of courageous decisions and consecrated co-operation that your indwelling Adjusters find it next to impossible to communicate directly with the human mind. Even when they do find it possible to flash a gleam of new truth to the evolving mortal soul, this spiritual revelation often so blinds the creature as to precipitate a convulsion of fanaticism or to initiate some other intellectual upheaval which results disastrously. Many a new religion and strange “ism” has arisen from the aborted, imperfect, misunderstood, and garbled communications of the Thought Adjusters.



(1207.6) 110:4.6 For many thousands of years, so the records of Jerusem show, in each generation there have lived fewer and fewer beings who could function safely with self-acting Adjusters. This is an alarming picture, and the supervising personalities of Satania look with favor upon the proposals of some of your more immediate planetary supervisors who advocate the inauguration of measures designed to foster and conserve the higher spiritual types of the Urantia races.



Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 13 March 2012 - 12:54 PM.


#29 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 02:47 PM

hello Alina,

can you imagine what enourmus distance was between first ameba and present state? and our Father belived in us!
Right now there is the same distance from Urantia to Paradise, and our Father and Jesus still belives in us

peace be with you
Peace be upon you

#30 menno

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 03:47 PM

Hi Alina

Try to look at those two quotes from a positive angle: They were expressed as per what the situation was in 1934 AD on this planet..

Between 1955, when the first Urantia Book was published and now (March 2012) many thousands of people around the world have had the opportunity of becoming aware of how we humans are directly connected with our Heavenly Father...via the presence of the Divine Thought Adjusters.

Before this information, contained within the pages of the UB, was available; I am sure that there were many people who had questions and experiences which could not be explained by Priests, Ministers, Doctors and Psychologists, etc., and so forged onward literally in a mental fog. Some even ending up in mental institutions.

We should rejoice in the fact that we are quite literally living on the "Morning Side of The Mountain". No need to wander around in circles in the darkness.

#31 Alina

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:37 PM

Of course! I agree with you Pike. Thank you. :)
But I find that the Messenger we're wanting to convey something more
Perhaps to be more spiritual? love more and respect more each other, more self-forgetfulness and increasing self-awareness,Maybe we realize that we must recognize and try that we need true guidance of the Adjuster, and our Spirit Adjuster also requires our greatest good will?

***
Menno, you are right, at times when the Revelations were given, there was nothing, not even where to look for credible response.Thank thanks for your words of encouragement! :)

***
However, in addition to what you have above, I discern the quotes as a deep and serious request by
the Solitary Messenger of Orvonton, even in these days, although many people have access to other truths.We can consider ourselves lucky, practically we are the pioneers, to identify with the Revelations of UB.and I think we should be alert to any sign by any person to be able to tell them about the existence of the UB. (if we can go further, best)
I find comovedor, still today, the last paragraph of Paper 110 which ends with these words:


(1213.5) 110:7.10 During the making and breaking of a contact between the mortal mind of a destiny reservist and the planetary supervisors, sometimes the indwelling Adjuster is so situated that it becomes possible to transmit a message to the mortal partner. Not long since, on Urantia, such a message was transmitted by a self-acting Adjuster to the human associate, a member of the reserve corps of destiny. This message was introduced by these words: “And now, without injury or jeopardy to the subject of my solicitous devotion and without intent to overchastise or discourage, for me, make record of this my plea to him.” Then followed a beautifully touching and appealing admonition. Among other things, the Adjuster pleaded “that he more faithfully give me his sincere co-operation, more cheerfully endure the tasks of my emplacement, more faithfully carry out the program of my arrangement, more patiently go through the trials of my selection, more persistently and cheerfully tread the path of my choosing, more humbly receive credit that may accrue as a result of my ceaseless endeavors — thus transmit my admonition to the man of my indwelling. Upon him I bestow the supreme devotion and affection of a divine spirit. And say further to my beloved subject that I will function with wisdom and power until the very end, until the last earth struggle is over; I will be true to my personality trust. And I exhort him to survival, not to disappoint me, not to deprive me of the reward of my patient and intense struggle. On the human will our achievement of personality depends. Circle by circle I have patiently ascended this human mind, and I have testimony that I am meeting the approval of the chief of my kind. Circle by circle I am passing on to judgment. I await with pleasure and without apprehension the roll call of destiny; I am prepared to submit all to the tribunals of the Ancients of Days.”


(1214.1) 110:7.11 [Presented by a Solitary Messenger of Orvonton.]



Love

Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 13 March 2012 - 07:42 PM.


#32 Alina

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:56 AM

Menno, I feel I owe an additional response:
You say:
"We should rejoice in the fact that we are quite literally living on the "Morning Side of The Mountain". No need to wander around in circles in the darkness"


Of course, I rejoice, I have many reasons to do so. I think it's good to try reflect on the parties of the UB. I draw attention and help me.I think that's not negative, all contrary! It is good!
For me the appeal of the Monitor is instructive in many ways and I think I should pay attention to
the request of the Monitor that leads us to walk the psychic circles of progress.
In these words is contained infinite Goodness,Beauty and Truth! Love flourishes in each council and petición.
It is a beauty!
It is light!

"...and cheerfully tread the path of my choosing, more humbly receive credit that may accrue as a result of my ceaseless endeavors — thus transmit my admonition to the man of my indwelling"(1213.5) 110:7.10


Remember this point, Morontia Mota:

(556.6) 48:7.6 4. Few mortals ever dare to draw anything like the sum of personality credits established by the combined ministries of nature and grace. The majority of impoverished souls are truly rich, but they refuse to believe it.



Greetings,

Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 14 March 2012 - 09:59 AM.


#33 -Scott-

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:37 PM

Here are a couple personality quotes. I find it amazing that not even the highest being's in the universe fully understand personality. I also find it amazing that no personality exists except the father.


P70:3, 5:6.2 Personality is one of the unsolved mysteries of the universes. We are able to form adequate concepts of the factors entering into the make-up of various orders and levels of personality, but we do not fully comprehend the real nature of the personality itself. We clearly perceive the numerous factors which, when put together, constitute the vehicle for human personality, but we do not fully comprehend the nature and significance of such a finite personality.

5.6.4 There is no personality apart from God the Father, and no personality exists except for God the Father


Edited by boomshuka, 17 March 2012 - 06:38 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#34 collins

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 08:32 AM

Here are a couple personality quotes. I find it amazing that not even the highest being's in the universe fully understand personality. I also find it amazing that no personality exists except the father.

That is interesting :huh: Sometimes the more i think about this personality matter and especially when the UB says Its Changeless - then I realize that perhaps what the authors (the universe beings) refer to as personality may not be exactly what we Urantia mortals considers as personlity - Or I should say what the English language says Personlity Is :ph34r:
After following the replies to this post - For those who hold the view that personality is changeless - Here is what I want to ask you;
Is it that you really understand all the factors that makes the personality changeless or Is it because the UB simply says so :rolleyes:

#35 Bonita

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:47 AM

After following the replies to this post - For those who hold the view that personality is changeless - Here is what I want to ask you;Is it that you really understand all the factors that makes the personality changeless or Is it because the UB simply says so :rolleyes:


Well that's a loaded question and I'm not sure if it's offensive or not, but I don't think any of us knew the distinction between personality and character before TUB came along. Now that it is explained, it makes perfect sense to me and if I don't accept it as true, then certain philosophical dilemmas arise. Personality as pattern solves those dilemmas.

Now, can I actually experience the phenomenon of changeless personality? Yes of course. If you really know a person and they go away for a few decades, when they return, you will probably say, "You haven't changed a bit, you're still the same old so and so." The person has obviously aged, been through all sorts of life changing experiences, maybe even has changed in terms of temperament, but the personality is still recognizable and constant. I can even see this in my sons as they've aged over the years. They are still the same personalities they were when they were children, but their reactions and thoughts have changed (mostly improved, thank goodness).

So now that my eyes are opened to this by TUB, I can see it rather clearly. But do I understand it? No. Who does?

#36 -Scott-

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 11:21 AM

Hello Collin's, you live along way's away -Accra, Ghana- :D . Are there any others in your country that read this book? Or do you think its largely a mystery where you live?
If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#37 Alina

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 11:28 AM

After following the replies to this post - For those who hold the view that personality is changeless - Here is what I want to ask you;
Is it that you really understand all the factors that makes the personality changeless or Is it because the UB simply says so :rolleyes:


Hi all!

(1225.9) 112:0.9 -7. Personality is changeless in the presence of change.

For my this quote means that when we change some rules or ways of thinking, customs, etc. Always,
however, we will be ourselves. I have met with friends who have not seen for many
years, but I recognized, after talking with them I realized they had changed some ideas, lifestyles
and many other personal characteristics. His physical appearance is also different,
But anyway, are the same person.Just as we change, but others recognize us.
I think we've all had similar experiences right?

This is the mystery of personality, so the same Solitary Messenger says:

(1225.2) 112:0.2 While it would be presumptuous to attempt the definition of personality, it may prove helpful to recount some of the things which are known about personality:...


Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 22 March 2012 - 12:48 PM.


#38 collins

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:04 AM

Bonita,
No! I did not intend to be offensive in my question. Sorry if you felt like that.
Am a very plain/honest/freemind kind of a person. If you really get to know me, offence will be the last thing in your mind in my relations to you & others.
Its just that this whole issue about "changeless personality" doesn't make sense to me. If I have to accept that the personality is changeless, then Its because I accept it from a source or person that I trust that much, not because I understand it or I'm convinced as to how it works. So, I trust the UB, so I can hold-on to what its says on Personality (at least for now) but am not convinced that the Personality is changeless.

Boomshuka,
Long, long way! and yes, Where I come from, the UB is not merely a mystery but to most of my folks - "its more like a BLASPHEMY". Its like a tabboo to teach some of the things in the UB. The good side is that in these modern times - people are no longer banished or beheaded for daring to speak the things contained in the UB which I now freely share with my folks.
There is something revealing in the reference you posted - "No personality exists except the Father".
You know! this simple quote means a lot. If there is no personality except the Father And the Father is changeless - then fine, we can say Personaltiy is Changeless. Then this also means that what we are calling personality and so relating it to our individual selfs - really has got nothing to do with who we are but so much to do with who God Is.
Is like the Father is broken-down into several million pieces (Personality) and placed them in each of us. Each piece is not a part of him but the whole him - Living in each of us.

#39 Bonita

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:11 AM

Is like the Father is broken-down into several million pieces (Personality) and placed them in each of us. Each piece is not a part of him but the whole him - Living in each of us.



That's the way a lot of people think of the Thought Adjusters, which have pre-personality. Some even think they are fractals of God. But nothing is broken down, really, although you're free to think of it that way. In truth, we live in God and he in us. "In God, man lives, moves, and has his being . . ." It's really a whole, a unity, not broken down at all. What seems to be in parts is actually part of the whole, the parts being individualized aspects of the whole. So it is with personality.

It is easier to understand personality if you think of it, not as being placed in us, but being bestowed upon us. Personality is a pattern; it does not have identity of its own. The pattern of personality arranges energy: physical, mindal and spiritual, and it arranges and unifies in a particular pattern. Personality has power, which we understand as will.


p483:9 42:12.2 The personality form is the pattern aspect of a living being; it connotes the arrangement of energies, and this, plus life and motion, is the mechanism of creature existence.

Pattern is a master design from which copies are made, actual reproductions. Paradise is the original pattern. The master design for personality is the Eternal Son, and the Sons of the Eternal Son, the Michael Sons are the pattern for personality in their universes. (It's nice to know that our personalities are patterned after him, and we know him as Jesus.) But the Universal Father is the source of both pattern and personality and is responsible for bestowing both.


p10:5 0:6.13 Pattern is a master design from which copies are made. Eternal Paradise is the absolute of patterns; the Eternal Son is the pattern personality; the Universal Father is the direct ancestor-source of both. But Paradise does not bestow pattern, and the Son cannot bestow personality.

104:4.15 Pattern and personality are two of the great manifestations of the acts of the First Source and Center; and no matter how difficult it may be to comprehend, it is nonetheless true that the power-pattern and the loving person are one and the same universal reality

11:9.5 Paradise is not ancestral to any being or living entity; it is not a creator. Personality and mind-spirit relationships are transmissible, but pattern is not. Patterns are never reflections; they are duplications—reproductions. Paradise is the absolute of patterns; Havona is an exhibit of these potentials in actuality.

1:5.6 These Paradise Sons of the order of Michael are perfect personalities, even the pattern for all local universe personality from that of the Bright and Morning Star down to the lowest human creature of progressing animal evolution.

The pattern of personality that is bestowed by the Father, reveals an individualized aspect of the whole pattern personality.

p10:4 0:6.12 In contrast to the aspect of the total, pattern discloses the individual aspect of energy and of personality. Personality or identity forms are patterns resultant from energy (physical, spiritual, or mindal) but are not inherent therein. That quality of energy or of personality by virtue of which pattern is caused to appear may be attributed to God—Deity—to Paradise force endowment, to the coexistence of personality and power.

And every personality has a master pattern on Havona

14:6.28 A Creator Son uses the creatures of Havona as personality-pattern possibilities for his own mortal children and spirit beings. The Michael and other Paradise Sons view Paradise and Havona as the divine destiny of the children of time.
14:6.37 7. The Evolutionary Mortals of the Ascending Career. Havona is the home of the pattern personality of every mortal type and the home of all superhuman personalities of mortal association who are not native to the creations of time.

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:00 PM

The words "personalit(*)" are listed 2120 times in the UB and the word "pattern" 112 times. Therefore "personalit(*) must have a variable meaning in that if it is a specific pattern, how or what does it have to do with the individual. Based on the various phrasings listed, would a adjuster have a specific or unique personality and if so, to what extent is their adjustment of an individual and fit within a personality pattern? If the Father or God is the only personality, how does pattern play in the fragmentation of this totality of a single personality? If everyone were to be adjusted to this one personality there would only be one again. It would make more sense to say that everyone lives within one total entity which cannot function properly until all of its parts are linked in such a way or pattern where there are no short circuits within the path from alpha to omega (beginning to end). Therefore, over time and space, The Father has become chaotically fragmented to such a degree that he can not connect to or from everyone, ergo the need for an adjuster. All these adjustments within the circuit cause everything to slow down to the point that the beginning can not catch up with the end.

Edited by As-Above-So-Below, 26 March 2012 - 02:30 PM.





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