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What I learned today


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#1 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:18 PM

Hello brothers and sisters,

I would like to open this topic for everyone.
Here I would like members to writte what new things did you learned in the day(s) behind you?

I hope that we will make nice 'database'. I know that some things which will be new for someone for others will be 'old news', but I think it can became a place with nice memories.

peace be with you all

Peace be upon you

#2 Bonita

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:39 AM

One thing I've learned recently is something that makes sense intellectually, but never really sunk in until a few weeks ago. I mean it sunk in deep and took up permanent residence in my soul. I learned that I should never do anything unless my heart is in it and when I attempt to do something that my heart is not in, even if I have the best of intentions (from my mind), it will not go well; it will turn out with human imperfection and all its repercussions. Likewise, those things I do wholeheartedly always go very well. It has taken me 60 years to learn what wholeheartedly really means and discovering this is a life changer . . . wish I could go back and fix a few things (more than a few things actually) now that I recognize this.

157:2.2 It is not the purpose of true religion merely to bring peace but rather to insure progress. And there can be no peace in the heart or progress in the mind unless you fall wholeheartedly in love with truth, the ideals of eternal realities.

There are those of you who probably go . . . duh! you didn't know that? Well no, I guess I didn't, although I suspected such. My mind is clever and tried to convince me that duty is more important, that I was doing a loving service, that hearts change and I could make mine or someone else's change, that I can make my heart's love grow out of sheer force of will, and all sorts of nonsense that I didn't recognize as wilely little lies, lies that tried to convince me that I should do this or that for reasons that appeared to be on the surface very wholesome and good. Hah!

#3 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 11:51 AM

hello,

Bonita, I totaly understand you but I had better luck and realise this truth with age of 30.
But even before this revelation something/somebody has always worked that I do the right thing, go the right way on life crosroads.
It was very strange. then when i realise that it always ends good, I stoped resisting.
i am not sure if Thought adjuster can have such influence on my life but I'm thankfull for it.
Recently after I discovered UB and start reading i was laying in my bed and it just flashed through my mind - I am right there where I should be!
At that moment I was overwhelmed with peace and true happines.
did any of you had such similar expirience?

peace be with you
Peace be upon you

#4 menno

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:21 PM

Hello Pike

You asked if any of us had such a similar experience. I, for one, can definitely answer "Yes"

There was a time in my life (back in 1981) when I was working as maintenace/cleaner in a Govrnment Post Office. This one day while I was sweeping up dirt into a dustpan and I was feeling quite low...very humbled by the fact that I was the lowest paid person in that building and for the twenty years previous I had been self-employed and using my brain way more than here in the Post Office, cleaning floors and toilets. Then I heard this voice, deep inside, that said "You should rejoice in the knowledge that you are exactly where God wants you to be."
Instantly my spirits were lifted, and then never again did I feel lower than anybody else. That message is within my being; forever.

Peace Be With You, Pike

#5 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:42 PM

hello menno,

was this only time or you had similar experiences?

did enyone had some dreams which eventually came true?

10 years ago I had very vivid dream. Back then I was on a good track regarding spiritual development but also very lost.
One evening I was very disapointet and I had a feeling that I'm standing infront of a wall. I asked God where are you? what is my purpose? that night i had a dream. i was taken on a tour with a guide. we past through a fogy, gray place with trees. place gave a lonly feeling. it was almost unpleasent. after that we went to a building. it was like a castle with a yard inside and open stairs. stairs was filled with persons dressed in wite robes and they all enjoyed a performance which was held in the yard. finally we end up in a big library. bookshelfs were covering the walls. my guide was sitting oposite from me and we talked about things which i can't recall.
strange about this dream is that i didn't forget it. i still remember the details.

yesterday i had a rimender.
sometimes through my mind pass a thought and few hours later thing that i thinked earlier really happened.
my reminder was the same situation as discribed above. i thinked about something in the mornig and it happened in the evening.
so i'm reminded often that i should listen to messages from i suppose my Thought adjuster.

peace be with you.
Peace be upon you

#6 Bonita

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:35 PM

Not all of those messages are from your Thought Adjuster, Pike. Most of them are thoughts swimming around in your subconscious that occasionally pop up for air. That's not to say that the Thought Adjuster doesn't occasionally shine a beacon on some of the more important ones from time to time; but in my own experience, it is not that often, only in matters of spiritual importance. The subconscious doesn't get that much respect since Freud demonized it in the last century, but it is a place where many worthy thoughts can get stored away and brought to consciousness when the time is ripe. Most of what people think of as divine messages or hints from one's inner guide are really coming from the subconscious, which is doing what it was designed to do as part of a well balanced and poised mind. Of course, not everyone's mind is well-balanced and poised, which is what gave Dr. Freud all his material, but I digress.

Edited by Bonita, 15 February 2012 - 08:37 PM.


#7 menno

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:45 PM

Hello Pike;

No that was not the only time I had that type of experience.

You mention having dreams that come true. I have had many of these dreams. I feel very fortunate that i found the Urantia Book many years ago; because it would have been very confusing to have all of these experiences and not have any clues as to what was happening.. I also believe, like you, that the Thought Adjuster is playing a primary role in these experiences, because there is no logical way that my sub-conscious mind could reveal events to my human mind as detailed as that which has occurred..

I shall switch over to yet another personal spiritual experience which has left a lasting impression with me. In 1998 at 10 pm my heart went over to something called "atral fibrilation" There was no pain involved...I was just very conscious of my heart fluttering rapidly. I did not want to go to the hospital as it was on an evening when the Emergency Room would have been very busy. So I waited until 7 am the next morning. When I arrived at the ER the nurses immediately put all the wires on me and hooked me on those monitors. It showed my heart rate bouncing all around between 130 and 150 beats per minute.. A cardiologist was alled in and they treated me with a drug called Rythmol. He said that if I did not convert to sinus rythum by 8 pm he would use an electric shock on my heart to stop what was going on.and get me over to sinus rythum.. My personal feeling was that I did not want to go through that process. This was my personal will. So I lay there throughout the day with my condition and stubbornly fought what was ahead of me' until around 6 pm.I gave up....I spoke to God and said that I would go through whatever had to be done....I said 'not my will but Thy Will' Then A beautiful peaceful feeling came over my whole body....I felt very peaceful and calm.. I lay there with my eyes closed...when I heard a nurse go by my bed and heard her say "You've converted" I calmly turned my head and looked at the monitor and saw that it was reading 88 beats per minute perfectly steady not one single beat over or under........88 straight across the screen. I took it as a sign from God because the number eight is used as a symbol of Infinity...and here it showed a double eight.

There are many more experiences that have happened over the years, To me, the relationship between the Divine Thought Adjuster and our human mind, is surely one of the most important truths revealed within this beautiful document; "The Urantia Book"

#8 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:28 AM

Hello,

thank you for sharing this Menno.
Before finding UB Earth was really magnificent place for me.
After reading the book, it is even more beautifull. I can't even find the word to describe it.

What did I learn today? When you are downcast from any reason, pray.
Simple pray lift me up, chear me and I'm comforted.
Out Father in Heaven and our Brother Jesus, are allways with us if we open our souls to them.
Right now, just writting this, made me happier, more peacefull and with the thought that everything will be OK.

Peace be with you
Peace be upon you

#9 Bonita

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 12:34 PM

I shall switch over to yet another personal spiritual experience which has left a lasting impression with me.


Menno, I'm curious as to what part of this experience you consider to be spiritual? I don't mean this as a challenge, I'm merely interested in what your thought processes are concerning your experience.

#10 menno

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:44 PM

Hi Bonita;

The part of the experience that concerns the struggle within myself..the struggle involved with "me" trying to steer my self along this path of life.....letting go of my will and giving this over to the Spirit of The Father within. The words that come to me, are "Not my will but Thy Will Be Done" (as per the Lord's Prayer.)

As I write this response, I am yet reminded of another time when I was asked to let go of my human ego concerns of "self-preservation" and placing my life into the care and safe keeping of The Spirit of the Father.
In Feb 1995 I was booked to fly out from Vancouver to Ottawa on a Wednesday afternoon. Two days before this, I was awakened in the middle of the night by a voice which asked me: "If you knew that there is a real possibility of that plane crashing, that plane that you are booked on; could you still get on that flight." ?
These were strong words. No doubt as to what was said. I wrestled with what had been said....for a while..then I let go of any fears that had swirled around and I said "Yes. I will not be afraid to climb on board that plane...even if it means that I could die.
I gave my safety and welfare over to God, with the feeling that ultimately I would be here on Urantia for as long as it was God's Will. I told my wife about what I had been asked and what I was prepared to do.
Note: The voice did not tell me to stay off that plane. I was told that there was a possibility of that plane crashing.
Now fast forward two days; I went to the airport, checked in and went to the boarding lounge. I could see the aircraft that I was booked on. The front of it was not far away from the windows of the terminal. The pilots were in the cockpit, doing their pre-flight checks, etc. I sat down and waited for the boarding to begin. At the time when pre-boarding (families with children, etc) normally takes place; the stewardesses showed up at the gate. Then the pilots came of the plane and went to the desk. Then the following anouncement was made: "Ladies and gentlemen, this flight has been cancelled. This aircraft will not be flying to Ottawa today. You should all go to boarding lounge Number so and so where you will be put on another flight which will take you through Toronto and then on to Ottawa."

See what happened? At the last minute, just before the passengers were going to board this aircraft; the pilots discovered something wrong with that aircraft...something bad enough to ground that plane...not a small issue where it would only be delayed until repairs could be made.

I call that experience a "Spiritual Experience" It would not have been a Spiritual Experience for me if I had not been awakened in the middle of the night and asked that question......if I had been left alone to sleep throuigh the night...gone about my travel plans...gone to the airport...gone to the boarding lounge...had the anouncement made...which shifted all of us passengers from one plane to another plane and headed off on our way...oblivious to whatever possible danger of crashing, etc...we had just been steered clear of..
Why was I awakened ? Ultimately' the only ones who can truly answer that question are The Spirit of The Father and myself.

And this is what I call sharing a "Spiritual Experience"

#11 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 01:02 AM

hello,

i agree with Bonita that mind is playing tricks with us sometimes.
But key word is 'sometimes'.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one with this kind of expiriences.
for me it is very hard to tell difference when is my subconciens speaking or Thought adjuster. but I allways leave the judgment to divine forces. time allways shows which message is a mindtrick and which is gennuine.

peace be with you
Peace be upon you

#12 Bonita

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:37 AM

So Menno,

Am I interpreting you correctly? What you consider to be a spiritual experience is your decision to put your wholehearted trust in God when faced with the option to believe your own fearful and controlling intellect instead?

If so I agree with you. I'm not convinced that God had anything to do with changing your heart rhythm or grounding the plane, and would not consider either of those events to be spiritual. But your own inner trust and faith in the love of God is spiritual. Even more spiritual would be the outpouring of love caused by such a spiritual experience. That, I'm sure, you would be totally unconscious of and unable to describe to us, but if I were with you during those times, perhaps I would have seen a gentler, kinder more grateful person emerge from the experience. It would not be something that you could readily see in yourself, but others would be affected by it and served . . . the benign virus of love.

Am I reading you correctly?

#13 menno

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 11:39 AM

Hi Bonita

I agree with your first paragraph.

However; I do not agree with your second paragraph; especially the part: "...you would be totally unconscious of and unable to describe to us...."

That may be your own personal understanding; but that does not mean that that is the way it works with everyone.

#14 Bonita

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:04 AM

I'm wondering if people believe that they are capable of seeing themselves as they really are and if they also believe that they are fully conscious of their character as it changes and grows.

108:6.5 These faithful custodians of the future career unfailingly duplicate every mental creation with a spiritual counterpart; they are thus slowly and surely re-creating you as you really are (only spiritually) for resurrection on the survival worlds. And all of these exquisite spirit re-creations are being preserved in the emerging reality of your evolving and immortal soul, your morontia self. These realities are actually there, notwithstanding that the Adjuster is seldom able to exalt these duplicate creations sufficiently to exhibit them to the light of consciousness.

Why do we need angels on the mansion worlds to help us see ourselves as others see us and know ourselves as angels know us? If we need help with these things on the mansion worlds, how is it that we can do them here?

48:6.25 Here you are face to face with true friends and understanding counselors, angels who are really able to help you “to see yourself as others see you” and “to know yourself as angels know you.

#15 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:26 AM

hi,

I read somewhere in the book that Urantia is one big spiritual kindergarden.
do you remember during growing up when you had a problem it was allways a big problem in the certain moment? then later in your life when you looked back, you allways laugh how trivial was the problem in comparison with the problems you are faced in present? :-)
Earth life really is one playground with a lot of small lesons.

what do you think how does lesons look on morontia spheres?

peace be with you
Peace be upon you

#16 Bonita

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:47 AM

That's why I say growth, any kind of growth, is unconscious. It takes time to look back and see the change, and even then it's not always easy to see if it is your own character that is changing or the world around it. You may notice that you don't have such a short temper as before or that you are more easy going and at peace with life, but unless you had a dramatic conversion reaction, which is rare, I don't think it is always obvious to the psyche when and where these things have come about. It tends to be gradual, although sometimes with periods of more rapid growth that makes you take notice, more often contrasted by long periods of slower, less perceptible growth.

In my own experience, I've had many, what I call, "AHA!" moments when something seems to click into place and become clear. But rarely is the difference in my character, if there is any, apparent to me. I may know that something has happened, an experience, and I know that it is true, beautiful and good, but all its repercussions are basically mysterious in manifestation forcing me to conclude that it's all part of a giant unity of experience. It's never about just little old me. If it's real, it has to be organic and part of the whole shebang, as I see it.

#17 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:10 AM

i agree about slow and rapid periods of learning ( there is something in sinusoidal movement).
i think that important is the moment when you realise that you are doing something wrong in your life and you need to work on it and fix it.

the decision to become better person
Peace be upon you

#18 Bonita

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:19 AM

But can you just decide to become a better person. Can you wake up in the morning and say, "Today I'm going to be a better person"?

I don't think it's possible. I do think it's possible to decide to try to discover truth, beauty and goodness . . . to try to recognize it in your heart . . . but that, by itself, doesn't make you good or a better person. It makes you willing to be a better person. Willingness is huge in the spiritual life, I think.

34:6.11 Every step you take must be one of willingness, intelligent and cheerful co-operation.

#19 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 12:06 PM

But if I DECIDE to be better person, doesn't that shows willingness?
Every time when I start to behave on old way, I caught and tell myself: Stop! take a breath, think what would Jesus do?
How would he handle this?

This is why I think that you can decide to become better person.
Of course I can't make conclusion that I become one, but that is not on me to do anyway.

We must not forget that Pride is the biggest sin.

Peace be with you
Peace be upon you

#20 Bonita

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:33 PM

But if I DECIDE to be better person, doesn't that shows willingness?
Every time when I start to behave on old way, I caught and tell myself: Stop! take a breath, think what would Jesus do?
How would he handle this?


What you're saying is that we should strive for higher living (as pointed out by Rodan), that we should attempt to live a religious life. Yet Jesus said that we cannot replace one temptation with a superior desire by the sheer force of will. He said that we have to fall in love with the higher and more idealistic form of behavior which we desire and then allow ourselves to be transformed spiritually by our willingness to grow and progress.


p1738:04 But let me warn you against the folly of undertaking to surmount temptation by the effort of supplanting one desire by another and supposedly superior desire through the mere force of the human will. If you would be truly triumphant over the temptations of the lesser and lower nature, you must come to that place of spiritual advantage where you have really and truly developed an actual interest in, and love for, those higher and more idealistic forms of conduct which your mind is desirous of substituting for these lower and less idealistic habits of behavior that you recognize as temptation. You will in this way be delivered through spiritual transformation rather than be increasingly overburdened with the deceptive suppression of mortal desires. The old and the inferior will be forgotten in the love for the new and the superior. Beauty is always triumphant over ugliness in the hearts of all who are illuminated by the love of truth. There is mighty power in the expulsive energy of a new and sincere spiritual affection. And again I say to you, be not overcome by evil but rather overcome evil with good.

This is why I think that you can decide to become better person.
Of course I can't make conclusion that I become one, but that is not on me to do anyway.

We must not forget that Pride is the biggest sin.


I definitely agree that pride is a huge temptation.


p1222:1 111:6.2 The courage required to effect the conquest of nature and to transcend one's self is a courage that might succumb to the temptations of self-pride. The mortal who can transcend self might yield to the temptation to deify his own self-consciousness.

What do you suppose they mean by deify one's own self-consciousness? Give yourself credit when the credit is really God's; believe that your mind or your thoughts are godlike; self-worship??




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