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#1 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 03:47 AM

Hello all,

since I am new to the forum I have a lot wath is on my mind :-)

The big question to me is about Indians.
are they some part od red race?
when i think about their civilisation they were on good track on spiritual level.
would it be better for them if they didn't met white man? would they already reach to L&L stage?

peace be with you
Pike
Peace be upon you

#2 Bonita

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:02 AM

I'm not aware that there is such a thing as racial light and life. I've read of personal and planetary light and life but not racial. The red and black races actually suffered from their isolation. I don't think it is possible to reach light and life, on any level, in isolation.

#3 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:51 AM

hi,

but from their point of view there were no other races. their fall started when white man came to america
Peace be upon you

#4 Bonita

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 01:41 PM

It's not about their point of view. It's about the universe's point of view. Light and life is not racial, in fact, light and life requires racial amalgamation without which the expression of certain human potentials is unattainable (51:4.4). This also includes upstepping from the violet race.

The red men who arrived in North America 85,000 years ago were essentially a pure race with little or no admixture (64:6.5). They were left alone for 85,000 years and did not arrive at light and life. What makes you think that they'd arrive there with a few hundred more years of isolation?

If it is as you say, left alone the red race would have arrived at light and life, why then did the Melchizedeks think it necessary to send Andites to upstep the isolated red men? Probably because they were going nowhere without it.

79:5.9 In the original Melchizedek plan for the improvement of the Urantia races it had been stipulated that one million of the pure-line descendants of Adam should go to upstep the red men of the Americas.

#5 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 02:17 PM

hi Bonita,

the one who asks gets his answer. :-)
you do have 40 years advantage :-)

peace be with you
Peace be upon you

#6 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 02:19 PM

Dear Pike, all,


In responding to your question about the American Indian and their spiritual track, I look to the larger sweep of man's history and the history of advancing truth provided by epochal revelation which we now know about thanks to the UB. In the beginning groups of people and tribes did not get along with each other, even the American Indian tribes. Sixty-five thousand years ago the red man had a wonderful spiritual teacher, Onamonalonton, who directed this race away from the worship of many gods to the veneration of "The Great Spirit." Later, his teachings became hazy traditions. You can read more about this in PAPER 64. But the watchword of the universe is progress. Religion is an evolutionary process and even after revelation, religion progresses by graduated revelation, as well as by evolutionary growth:


P.591 - §3 When the Planetary Prince arrives on a primitive world, the evolved religion of fear and ignorance prevails. The prince and his staff make the first revelations of higher truth and universe organization. These initial presentations of revealed religion are very simple, and they usually pertain to the affairs of the local system. Religion is wholly an evolutionary process prior to the arrival of the Planetary Prince. Subsequently, religion progresses by graduated revelation as well as by evolutionary growth. Each dispensation, each mortal epoch, receives an enlarged presentation of spiritual truth and religious ethics. The evolution of the religious capacity of receptivity in the inhabitants of a world largely determines their rate of spiritual advancement and the extent of religious revelation.



All the best,
Meredith

#7 Bonita

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 02:29 PM

hi Bonita,

the one who asks gets his answer. :-)
you do have 40 years advantage :-)

peace be with you


I sure hope you don't think I'm being bossy or condescending Pike. 40 years does give me an advantage, but in reality, I haven't learned 40 years worth of knowledge, experience or manners. I'm still pretty unrefined when it comes to these dialogues.

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:16 PM

I've done a little research into the ancient stores about the American Indian stores of creation and found some interesting parallels to the UB. Although not directly visible, there are similar correlations.
I found one of these stores located at the following site:
http://en.wikipedia....avajo_mythology

#9 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:16 AM

I sure hope you don't think I'm being bossy or condescending Pike. 40 years does give me an advantage, but in reality, I haven't learned 40 years worth of knowledge, experience or manners. I'm still pretty unrefined when it comes to these dialogues.


hello Bonita,

you are a doctor, wright?
all doctors are bossy :-) - proffesional habbit

anyway i'm not ofended.
it is not likely that who studies the book for such a long time is a mean person :-)

peace be with you
Peace be upon you

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:56 PM

The current plight of the American Indian

http://www.nrcprogra...st_allotmentact

History and Culture

Allotment Act — 1887

In 1887 Congress passed the General Allotment Act also known as the ‘Dawes Act’. “Friends” of American Indians believed that this act and other assimilationist practices were an alternative to the extinction of Indian people. The Cherokee and the other Five Civilized Tribes which included the Creek, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Cherokee, and Seminole resisted the act.
The act stated that the head of each family would receive 160 acres of tribal land and each single person would receive 80 acres. Title to the land would be held in trust by the government for 25 years. After 25 years each individual would receive United States citizenship and fee simple title to their land.

Tribal lands not allotted to Native Americans on the reservation were to be sold to the United States and the land would be opened for homesteading. Proceeds from the land sales were to be placed in trust and used by the government as an account for supplies provided to Indian people. The Cherokees western land extension was sold to the United States in 1891 and in 1893 opened, mostly to non-Indian setters, in a famous land run.

When the allotment process began in 1887, the total land held by American Indian tribes on reservations equaled 138,000,000 acres. By the end of the allotment period landholdings had been reduced to 48,000,000 acres. Since 1934 the landholdings have slowly increased to 56,000,000 acres.

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:00 PM

The current plight of the American Indian, (Cont.)

http://www.nrcprogra..._citizenshipact

History and Culture

Citizenship Act — 1924

A one sentence act “[A]ll non-citizen Indians born within the territorial limits of the United States be, and they are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States,” made all American Indians citizens of the United States. Most Native Americans considered this Act to be long overdue.

Throughout history, a few treaties offered Native Americans citizenship options. However, in many cases individuals were forced to choose between staying with their tribes and being removed to the west or remaining behind in the old lands and accepting citizenship and a small allotment of land.

The Dawes Act of 1887 conferred citizenship to those who received land allotments after they held in trust for 25 years. Some Native Americans, like the Cherokee, became citizens when their state was admitted to the Union. Another act in 1888 declared that Indian women who married U.S. citizens would be given citizenship. In 1924, when the Citizenship Act was passed almost one-third of the Indian people in the United States were still not considered citizens.

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:08 PM

The current plight of the American Indian, (Cont.)

http://www.nrcprogra...giousfreedomact

History and Culture

Indian Religious Freedom Act — 1978

A joint resolution of Congress, the Indian Religious Freedom Act of 1978 states that it shall be the “policy of the United States to protect and preserve for American Indians their inherent right of freedom to believe, express, and exercise the traditional religions of the American Indian . . including but not limited to access to sites, use and possession of sacred objects and freedom to worship through ceremonials and traditional rites.” As a joint resolution the act had no provisions for enforcement.

An act that was finally passed in 1993 provided American Indians with help to retain their sacred sites and the 1994 act made it legal for peyote to be used and transported for ceremonial purposes in connection with the practice of traditional Indian religion.

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:14 PM

The current plight of the American Indian, (Cont.)

http://www.nrcprogra...eterminationact

History and Culture

Indian Self Determination and Education Assistance Act — 1975

After the era of termination policies in the 1950s (see Termination Policy) a renewed paternalism toward the American Indians took over government policy. But a turnaround began to take place in the 1960s and in 1970 Richard Nixon told Congress that “the Federal government should begin to recognize and build upon the capacities and insights of the Indian people.”

In 1975, after much debate, Congress passed the Indian Self-Determination and Education
Assistance Act . The government could now contract with tribal governments for federal services.

The act rejuvenated tribal governments by admitting, rejecting and countering previous paternalistic policies . Native American people were now able to operate their own schools. Since the act was passed more than seventy schools have taken charge of their own operations. Native Americans now have the chance to take control of their own education bringing their own languages, beliefs and philosophies to their schools.

“The Congress declares its commitment to the maintenance of the Federal Government’s unique and continuing relationship with and responsibility to the Indian people through the establishment of a meaningful Indian self-determination policy which will permit an orderly transition from Federal domination of programs for and services to Indians to effective and meaningful participation by the Indian people in the planning, conduct and administration of these programs and services...” (Sec.3. ( B).)

Edited by As-Above-So-Below, 31 January 2012 - 02:39 PM.


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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:17 PM

The current plight of the American Indian, (Cont.)

http://www.nrcprogra...rminationpolicy

History and Culture

Termination Policy — 1953-1968

In 1943 the United States Senate conducted a survey of Indian conditions. The living conditions on the reservations were found to be horrific, with the residents living in severe poverty. The Bureau of Indian Affairs and the federal bureaucracy were found to be at fault for the troubling problems due to extreme mismanagement. Thus began the era of the governments’ efforts to eradicate the Indian tribes of North America. The U.S. government called this their “Termination Policy.”

The government believed that there were tribes that were ready to be part of main stream American society and no longer needed the protection of the federal government. Two tribes, the Klamaths who owned valuable timber property in Oregon and the Agua Caliente, who owned the land around Palm Springs were some of the first tribes to be affected by the policy. These lands, rich in resources, were taken over by the Federal Government.

In 1953 Congress adopted an official policy of “termination” declaring that the goal was “as rapidly as possible to make Indians within the territorial limits of the United States subject to the same laws and entitled to the same privileges and responsibilities as are applicable to other citizens of the
United States.”(House Concurrent Resolution 108)

From 1953-1964 109 tribes were terminated and federal responsibility and jurisdiction was turned over to state governments. Approximately 2,500,000 acres of trust land was removed from protected status and 12,000 Native Americans lost tribal affiliation. The lands were sold to non-Indians the tribes lost official recognition by the U.S. government.

Public Law 280 which was passed in 1953 turned power over to state governments to enforce most of the regular criminal laws on reservations as they were doing in other parts of the state. State governments and tribes disapproved of the law. Tribes disliked states having jurisdiction without tribal consent and state governments resented taking on jurisdiction for these additional areas without additional funding. With such mutual dissent additional amendments to Public Law 280 have been passed to require tribal consent in law enforcement and in some cases the states have been able to return jurisdiction back to the federal government.

#15 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:34 PM

Fall of mighty nation.
I can't decide who lost more. US who lost great wisdom from their native citizens, or Indians which lost everything.
Religion, believes, land, nation, etc.

Tragic end.

But disappointment is also part of ascension.

Peace be with you
HP
Peace be upon you

#16 Bonita

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:29 PM

Oh for heaven's sake! Step back a minute and look at the big picture. The more advanced blue race was all but erased in Europe and I don't hear anyone lamenting the fall of Europe (which didn't happen) or the loss blue race talents. It's all part of racial evolution.

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:43 PM

It is interesting that Native American Indian males do not have facial hair. This would indicate that their DNA is different from that of Euro-Asian males. This would also indicate that their isolation in the America’s would classify their race as unique, to say the least. Their life style as recognized by our European ancestors seems to tie them with nature and the land more so than any other race, not excluding their religious beliefs.

Please note the extracts from a book in my personal library and also for your examination, the URL listings below.

http://openlibrary.o...e_present_time.

A History of the United States - IN CHRONLOGICAL ORDER – FROM A.D. 432 TO THE PRESENT TIME
COPYRIGHT, 1886 – By ROBERT JAMES BELFORD

Page 11.


HISTORY

OF THE

UNITED STATES


The native races of northern Asia and the Indians of America—both North and South—are classed as belonging to the same Mongoloid variety of the human race; but whether America was originally peopled from Asia, or Asia from America, is a problem which pre-historic research has not yet solved. Columbus, when he touched land in 1492, believed he had reached India, and consequently called the natives Indians. How long the Continent had been peopled before his advent is unknown, but ancient remains, such as the mounds in the Mississippi valley, the pre-historic copper-mines south of Lake Superior, and the shell-mounds (kitchen-middings) along the sea-coasts, attest the fact than an aboriginal people, or most likely two aboriginal peoples, had existed in what is now the United States for an indefinite period extending over many hundreds and perhaps thousands of years. Our ancestors, the colonists of this country, found the native Indians divided into numerous tribes, speaking different languages or dialects. East of the Mississippi the chief of these, with their probable numbers about A. D. 1650, were: the Algonquin tribes, 90,000; the Sioux or Dakotas, 3000; the Huron-Iroquois, 17,000; Catawbas, 3000; Cherokees, 12,000; Uchees, 1000; Natchez, 4000; and Mobilians, 50,000; or about 180,000 all told.

A. D.
432. Fu-sang (supposed to be America) visited by Buddhist monks from China who explore the coast.

464. Hoei-schin (Universal Compassion) and his companions start on a second exploration, which may have reached as far as San Blas, Mex.

499. Hoei-schin's report and that of his companions are entered in the Chinese Year Books.*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* These dates are from Johan Friedrich Neumann's translations from the Year Books. See "Zobedj; and the Chinese In America. Buda-Pesth, 1849." I. e. British Museum. "Fusang; an Inquiry into Chinese Discoveries in America." New York, 1868. "The Dlscovery of America." Erie Pa., 1866.





kitchen-middings

http://www.globusz.c...ic/00000014.htm

….
It is, however, chiefly in America that these heaps attract attention, for there huge shell-mounds stretch along the coast in Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Massachusetts, Louisiana, California, and Nicaragua. We meet with them again near the Orinoco and the Mississippi, in the Aleutian Islands, and in the Guianas, in Brazil and in Patagonia, on the coasts of the Pacific as on those of the Atlantic. Owing to the darker color of the vegetation growing on them, the shell-heaps of Tierra del Fuego are seen from afar by the navigator. For a long time the true character of these mounds was not known, and they were attributed to natural causes, such as the emergence of the ancient coast-line from the sea, and it was not until lately that it was discovered that they were the work of men.

Some of these kitchen-middings are of great size. Sir Charles Lyell describes one on St. Simon's Island, at the mouth of the Altamaha (Georgia), which covers ten acres of ground and varies in height from five to ten feet. It consisted almost entirely of oyster shells. In America, as in Europe, excavations brought to light hatchets, flints, arrows, and fragments of pottery. Another of these mounds, near the St. John River, consists, as does that visited by Lyell, of oyster shells, and is of extraordinary dimensions, being three hundred feet long, and though the exact width cannot be made out, is certainly several hundred feet across. Putnam gives an account of the excavation of one of these mounds formed of shells of the Mya, Venus, Pecten, Buccinum, and Natica genera. It stretched along the sea-coast for a distance of several hundred feet, it was from four to five feet thick, and penetrated some distance below the surface of the ground. The valves had been opened with the aid of heat, and the animal bones found with the shells had been broken with heavy hammers which were found in the kitchen-midding. The bones included those of the stag, the wolf, and the fox. Fishes were also represented by remains of the cod, the plaice, and chelonia by turtle shells. Some bird bones were also found, and the knives, arrow- and spear-heads, scrapers, etc., were all of the rudest workmanship. Mr. Phelps has superintended yet more important excavations at Damariscotta and all along the coast to the month of the Penobscot. In the lowest layers he made out ancient hearths, and found numerous fragments of pottery which are the most ancient examples of keramic ware found in New England, and were covered with incised ornamentation of considerable refinement.

The kitchen-middings of Florida and Alabama are even more remarkable. There is one on Amelia Island which is a quarter of a mile long with a medium depth of three feet and a breadth of nearly five. That of Bear's Point covers sixty acres of ground, that of Anercerty Point one hundred, and that of Santa Rosa five hundred. Others taper to a great height. Turtle Mound, near Smyrna, is formed of a mass of oyster shells attaining a height of nearly thirty feet, and the height of several others is more than forty feet. In all of them bushels of shells have already been found, although a great part of the sites they occupy are still unexplored; huge trees, roots, and tropical creepers having, in the course of many centuries, covered them with an almost impenetrable thicket.

Whether man did or did not live in the basin of the Delaware at the most remote times of which we have any knowledge, we meet with traces of his occupation in the same latitude at more recent periods. At Long-Nick-Branch is a shell-mound that extends for half a mile, and in California there is a yet larger kitchen-midding. It measures a mile in length by half a mile in width, and, as in similar accumulations, excavations have yielded thousands of stone hammers and bone implements.

The shell-mounds of which we have so far been speaking are all near the sea, but there is yet another consisting entirely of marine shells fifty miles beyond Mobile. This fact seems to point to a considerable change in the level of the ground since the time of man's first occupancy, for he is not likely to have taken all the trouble involved in carrying the mollusca necessary for his daily food so far, when he might so easily have settled down near the shore.

I cannot close this account of the kitchen-middings, without calling attention to two very interesting facts. The importance of these mounds bears witness alike to the number of the inhabitants who dwelt near them, and the long duration of their sojourn. Worsaae sets back the initial date of the most ancient of the shell-mounds of the New World more than three thousand years. This is however a delicate question, on which in the present state of our knowledge it is difficult to hazard a serious opinion. It is easier to come to a conclusion on other points: the close resemblance, for instance, between the kitchen-middings of America and those of Europe. In both continents we find the early inhabitants fed almost entirely on fish; their weapons, tools, and pottery were almost identical in character; and in both cases the characteristic animals of Quaternary times had disappeared, and the use of metals still remained unknown. Are these remarkable coincidences the result of chance, or must we not rather suppose that people of the same origin occupied at the same epoch both sides of the Atlantic? ….






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