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#21 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:56 AM

And neither can any mortal mind carry a message from the departed or God or any agent of God to any other mortal. This whole receiving and transmitting nonsense is so distasteful and further perpetuation of priesthoods and specially endowed or called individuals whose business is standing between a human or all of humanity and God. If you get a message, it may be genuine and for you alone, or more likely, it is not genuine and it is from you to you....but it is definitely NOT for someone or anyone else - get over yourself! And if you think someone stands between your mind and God mind, well it must be horrible to be so primitive still....quit being a victim of manipulation and think and pray and find God on your own....you can do it!!

I just feel the UFO thing is so tied to "salvation" and "intervention" and even armageddon (War of the Worlds) and mind reading and speaking to the dead.....all of these.... appeal to the same type of mind.....which feels unworthy and helpless and victimized. It demonstrates mental weakness to me. I've known those who hate their life and blame others for it and require others to fix it......zero self determination, a mindless helplessness hoping for someone or something to "deliver" them from the web of their own weaving. Sad. The mind can create and uphold any level of unreality it seems, no matter how preposterous!

Do you think "interplanetary communication" in any way describes mortal or morontial travel between inter-galactic planets? I do not. Not even those settled in light and life. To what purpose? When we are ready for space travel, it is time to gather family and friends and take a little trip to the Sea of Glass and meet our friendly Seraphim!! Otherwise, stay home until such a time as you are needed and have much work yet to do...where you are. Peace.

Edited by fanofVan, 24 July 2012 - 11:02 AM.

Peace be upon you."

#22 Bill Martin

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:04 PM

I haven't the slightest doubt in my mind that there is communication between Urantia and Mansonia. I wing thoughts every day to those who have passed on and I am SURE they receive these messages. And I don't bother waiting on a reply...
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#23 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:17 PM

Bill, while I understand your sentiment and respect your scholarship, I am confused by your post. It does not spring from any materials in TUB I have found...but I'm open to some to be sure. I understand we may pray to and worship God and we can hear our TA and give consent for inner communication with God-mind and I believe local angels and midwayers can also hear our prayers and petitions too(?), at least those verbalized. And it is written there is a communication "system" between all worlds by some beings. Unless the world(s) are isolated, in which case not even the "system" operates and only mind/soul to God/TA is an "open channel". The thoughts you "wing" are not "received" by anyone or any agency I am aware of when directed to any mortal survivors who have graduated before you.

Now, there may be such, I just haven't found it yet. And we will be reunited with those we love(d) and there is some form of personal archive for our uses in our progression adventure (I could skip most of mine and save lots of humiliation....but I fear I'm going to see the whole movie someday). I'm glad you "don't bother waiting for a reply" as none is coming friend, as you know. The alt ego we often grow up having two way conversations with is common enough and I've known many who transfer this conversation to the dearly departed, grave yard recorders would discover a great deal of such "conversation" at visitations. I think it is human and comforting.

But this site is for the discovery and sharing of reality, based on TUB. I fear your position could be misunderstood by neophytes here. You do not speak to dead people. And they are gone. And they cannot speak back. Period. And while I love many who have preceded me to Mansonia, there is much said about the dangers of ancestor worship as well. The veneration of the dearly departed ignores the reality that they are not departed at all....and that we will soon join them, personally and truly in life. This is the greatness of TUB, that all live in The Kingdom all the time, whether we know it or believe it or acknowledge it or act like it.....that's The Truth. Those who have survived mortality and ascended to the next level of The Kingdom are not so distant from us as we imagine. Sending them love and thoughts is a wonderful sentiment in the realization of this truth of The Kingdom and our place therein. But it's a slippery slope for a discussion thread on visitations from others here on Urantia, no? There are those who believe and claim communication with dead folk, demons, angels, and others that could misread your position as support of such which I know is not your intent. Peace.
Peace be upon you."

#24 Alina

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:57 PM

I haven't the slightest doubt in my mind that there is communication between Urantia and Mansonia. I wing thoughts every day to those who have passed on and I am SURE they receive these messages. And I don't bother waiting on a reply...



Hi fanofVan,

Hope I'm not wrong, but I think that Bill refers to it:


(1190.5) 108:4.4 When a world is isolated by rebellion, when a planet is cut off from all outside encircuited communication, as was Urantia after the Caligastia upheaval, aside from personal messengers there remains but one possibility of direct interplanetary or universe communication, and that is through the liaison of the Adjusters of the spheres. No matter what happens on a world or in a universe, the Adjusters are never directly concerned. The isolation of a planet in no way affects the Adjusters and their ability to communicate with any part of the local universe, superuniverse, or the central universe. And this is the reason why contacts with the supreme and the self-acting Adjusters of the reserve corps of destiny are so frequently made on quarantined worlds. Recourse is had to such a technique as a means of circumventing the handicaps of planetary isolation. In recent years the archangels’ circuit has functioned on Urantia, but that means of communication is largely limited to the transactions of the archangel corps itself.


(1191.1) 108:4.5 We are cognizant of many spirit phenomena in the far-flung universe which we are at a loss fully to understand. We are not yet masters of all that is transpiring about us; and I believe that much of this inscrutable work is wrought by the Gravity Messengers and certain types of Mystery Monitors. I do not believe that Adjusters are devoted solely to the remaking of mortal minds. I am persuaded that the Personalized Monitors and other orders of unrevealed prepersonal spirits are representative of the Universal Father’s direct and unexplained contact with the creatures of the realms.




Greetings,

Alina
***

#25 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:16 PM

So then, as I understand it, my TA and any other TA can and do communicate. And if I or any other had a close enough relationship with our TA, that message "on wing" could and would be received? I endlessly reveal my ignorance. Touche Bill and my thanks Alina. Hmmmm....what else I wonder do I misunderstand? Peace.

:mellow:
Peace be upon you."

#26 Bonita

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:32 PM

No one is even remotely suggesting that praying for the deceased, missing their personal company and sending them loving thoughts has anything at all to do with mediumship. All genuine prayers are grasped by the spirit gravity circuit and sent to the appropriate deity in their respective province for answering. Genuine prayers go only one way and they never land on deaf ears. Would deity deny a deceased loved one the knowledge that prayers and love are being sent their way? I sincerely doubt it. And although I cannot receive messages from my dead loved ones, I most certainly am aware of their ongoing and current love. Love has spirit value and would therefore always be seized by the spirit gravity circuit. Whether or not this love is denied expression until we arrive to share it personally, we may not know with certainty, but all reasonableness tells me that God (Thought Adjusters) would not hesitate to share such a communication in a way that does not jeopardize anyone's spiritual welfare. Surely it is not my imagination that I'm fully aware that my closest personal friends and family who have passed are actively loving me right now this very moment. If I can be aware of their love, I'm certain they are fully aware of mine.


7:3.3 The spirit-gravity circuit is the basic channel for transmitting the genuine prayers of the believing human heart from the level of human consciousness to the actual consciousness of Deity. That which represents true spiritual value in your petitions will be seized by the universal circuit of spirit gravity and will pass immediately and simultaneously to all divine personalities concerned. Each will occupy himself with that which belongs to his personal province. Therefore, in your practical religious experience, it is immaterial whether, in addressing your supplications, you visualize the Creator Son of your local universe or the Eternal Son at the center of all things.

7:3.5 But how much more perfect is the superb technique of the spiritual world! If anything originates in your consciousness that is fraught with supreme spiritual value, when once you give it expression, no power in the universe can prevent its flashing directly to the Absolute Spirit Personality of all creation.


p82:4 Spirit-gravity pull and response thereto operate not only on the universe as a whole but also even between individuals and groups of individuals. There is a spiritual cohesiveness among the spiritual and spiritized personalities of any world, race, nation, or believing group of individuals. There is a direct attractiveness of a spirit nature between spiritually minded persons of like tastes and longings. The term kindred spirits is not wholly a figure of speech.

#27 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 03:58 PM

As I said above, I did not think and do not accuse Bill of anything approaching "mediumship". I merely felt his brevity and lack of clarification could be so misconstrued by others. Apologies to him and any who know better than I the teachings of the Revelation.....for there are many such. I am fascinated by this topic of communication to those who have traversed to morontia form. Of course, only third circlers are currently awakened to receive such "messages", eh? All others await the dispensational awakening. I understand the more mechanical circuits have "call message" recorders.....I believe a pronouncement to Van (?) was stuck in transmission for a few thousand years when isolation first occured. I wonder if anyone could provide more quotes to illuminate my ignorance on this issue. Someone else suggested that inter-planetary communications between ascenders is possible by these circuits. I have my doubts/confusions about that issue too. If we were not isolated and in light and life, is there a Ma Bell of the universe that provides for messaging between mortal spheres? Or are these circuits reserved for higher personalities about the administration of these worlds?

To know so little after so much study....back to the Book!! Peace.
Peace be upon you."

#28 Bonita

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 07:22 PM

I agree with you fanofVan that novices, based on what was said above, might misunderstand and assume that intercommunication between the living and dead is possible. In order to allay that misunderstanding, I'll offer the following quote:


112.3.7 Those who go to the mansion worlds are not permitted to send messages back to their loved ones. It is the policy throughout the universes to forbid such communication during the period of a current dispensation.

#29 Alina

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:32 PM

Hi all!

I agree and think the following quote is clear.


(1230.5) 112:3.7 Upon death the Thought Adjuster temporarily loses personality, but not identity; the human subject temporarily loses identity, but not personality; on the mansion worlds both reunite in eternal manifestation. Never does a departed Thought Adjuster return to earth as the being of former indwelling;never is personality manifested without the human will; and never does a dis-Adjustered human being after death manifest active identity or in any manner establish communication with the living beings of earth. Such dis-Adjustered souls are wholly and absolutely unconscious during the long or short sleep of death. There can be no exhibition of any sort of personality or ability to engage in communications with other personalities until after completion of survival. Those who go to the mansion worlds are not permitted to send messages back to their loved ones. It is the policy throughout the universes to forbid such communication during the period of a current dispensation.



Ah! and in case,,, :) and there is no confusion. I copied the quotes above in response to fanofVan. refer to another kind of communication ...More precisely according to Bill's idea we have our Adjuster as an intermediary for communication with the Father.
And also Personalized Monitors and others orders...Copy only one:


(1191.1) 108:4.5 We are cognizant of many spirit phenomena in the far-flung universe which we are at a loss fully to understand. We are not yet masters of all that is transpiring about us; and I believe that much of this inscrutable work is wrought by the Gravity Messengers and certain types of Mystery Monitors. I do not believe that Adjusters are devoted solely to the remaking of mortal minds. I am persuaded that the Personalized Monitors and other orders of unrevealed prepersonal spirits are representative of the Universal Father’s direct and unexplained contact with the creatures of the realms.



Greetings,

Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 26 July 2012 - 09:45 PM.


#30 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 11:42 AM

I've seen some excellent artistic renderings of the shape and composition and relative positions of the spheres and organization of the seven super universes. I was wondering if anyone has created illustrations of the hosts of personalities and beings as they are organized in universe administration? And similarly, in regards to this issue of "communication" systems, is there any diagrams or aids illustrating who's connected to whom and how?

I know of the "harp of God" which I understood to be a "receiver" but not a transmitter device. To whom do mortals or morontial ascenders "send" communications to? By what agency? I know some levels of beings "share" knowledge - concurrently or at will - but others need a system or network to receive or transmit.

I remain concerned that this notion of sending and receiving thoughts or prayers or feelings to the graduates on Mansonia or therefrom is a natural, human desire but not a reality in fact and function. Does God download our prayers "to" or "about" our departed loved ones to them? Really? Only third circlers and greater have any mind/personality intact now and for a long time as most are sleeping survivors and the posts above certainly say that THEY are receiving nothing from anybody. All survivors upon awakening must certainly know how safe we are here and how soon we will rejoin them, eh? Would they send any message the Mother Spirit or God mind of TA or the Spirit of Truth does not already? And what have we to offer them from here?

Sorry but the whole thing smacks of humanistic romanticism to me......so far. But perhaps there are quotes to come to illustrate further my ignorance of the topic..... which is significant no doubt. Now I suggest no harm or evil or sin in such "winging" of thoughts, prayers, hopes, endearments, and love. Just concern that there are those who definitely believe in "communication" that does not exist and this little topic tangent might feed that which is best starved. Funny, but I have become far more skeptical now as TUB believer than before when "anything was possible" in my new-age seeking of truth, meanings, and reality. We live in a precise and orderly and well managed universe, not anything is possible and we should not pretend that it is....not here anyway. Please provide quotes which describe or allow for such beliefs as this communication described by Bill. I have much yet to learn. Peace.
Peace be upon you."

#31 Bill Martin

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:26 PM

Please forgive my lack of response to this thread. I have been enroute from Bocas Del Toro Panama and have been "out-of-touch," (my general state). Thanks to our very learned participants here for such acuity, perspicacity and imagination for fleshing out the responses to FanofVan about my simple belief, my earnest faith and definite certitude that my good wishes and love are received by my still living (not dead, just not here anymore) friends who have GRADUATED.

Honestly, I have believed (and belief is limiting, I know) that there is a place on mansonia where you can go, in your free time, to check up on the progress or lack thereof of those left behind. There would have to be reasonable limits , to avoid obsession with the living (?) but it seems entirely sensible and loving to provide updates, from time to time, of those left behind. I am entitled to this opinion and regard it as such and communicate it as a Faith Son of the Most Highs.
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#32 Bonita

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:56 PM

If Andon and Fonta and John the Baptist know what's happening here on Urantia, I'm sure there are others.

#33 Coop

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 06:26 AM

ALL Sincere Prayers Are Sent Forth

And Recieved By To Whom IT May Concern. Imho

NAMASTE

'' No sincere prayer is denied an answer '' !


91:6.3 No matter how difficult it may be to reconcile the scientific doubtings regarding the efficacy of prayer with the ever-present urge to seek help and guidance from divine sources, never forget that the sincere prayer of faith is a mighty force for the promotion of personal happiness, individual self-control, social harmony, moral progress, and spiritual attainment.


168:4.5 2. When a prayer is apparently unanswered, the delay often betokens a better answer, although one which is for some good reason greatly delayed. When Jesus said that Lazarus’s sickness was really not to the death, he had already been dead eleven hours. No sincere prayer is denied an answer except when the superior viewpoint of the spiritual world has devised a better answer, an answer which meets the petition of the spirit of man as contrasted with the prayer of the mere mind of man.


194:3.20 Prayer did not bring the spirit on the day of Pentecost, but it did have much to do with determining the capacity of receptivity which characterized the individual believers. Prayer does not move the divine heart to liberality of bestowal, but it does so often dig out larger and deeper channels wherein the divine bestowals may flow to the hearts and souls of those who thus remember to maintain unbroken communion with their Maker through sincere prayer and true worship.

Edited by Coop, 04 August 2012 - 06:33 AM.


#34 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 08:34 AM

Worship, prayer, counselors with knowledge.....hmmmmmm......hardly messages from here to Mansonia, eh? Well, effective or not, hardly important in Bill's case for his context is pure of heart to be sure. I directed my concerns specifically to those who believe in "speaking" and "hearing" the "other side" - not to Bill's practice at all and not to confuse the two distinct practices. Spirit directed personal feelings change us and can be transferred "in the Spirit" in ways I do not pretend to understand and would not care to dimminish in potential. Sorry to drag the thread off track! I am anything but rigid or stern in my acceptance of the possibilities we will yet witness and experience. Whatever God wills....is. Peace.
Peace be upon you."

#35 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 09:10 AM

In looking for the actual circuit or method of Bill's "winged" thoughts and prayers, either to or on behalf of others, whether here on planet or graduated to the Mansion worlds either one, it would appear that the TAs provide a potential "network".....for do they not communicate some way one to another or all to each or each to all?

(62.2) God has distributed the infinity of his eternal nature throughout the existential realities of his six absolute co-ordinates, but he may, at any time, make direct personal contact with any part or phase or kind of creation through the agency of his prepersonal fragments. And the eternal God has also reserved to himself the prerogative of bestowing personality upon the divine Creators and the living creatures of the universe of universes, while he has further reserved the prerogative of maintaining direct and parental contact with all these personal beings through the personality circuit.

God mind is everywhere, eh? This network is not only to direct prayer and worship from believers to Heaven but has a more generalized functionality too?

(63.4) If mortal man is wholeheartedly spiritually motivated, unreservedly consecrated to the doing of the Father’s will, then, since he is so certainly and so effectively spiritually endowed by the indwelling and divine Adjuster, there cannot fail to materialize in that individual’s experience the sublime consciousness of knowing God and the supernal assurance of surviving for the purpose of finding God by the progressive experience of becoming more and more like him.

(63.5) Man is spiritually indwelt by a surviving Thought Adjuster. If such a human mind is sincerely and spiritually motivated, if such a human soul desires to know God and become like him, honestly wants to do the Father’s will, there exists no negative influence of mortal deprivation nor positive power of possible interference which can prevent such a divinely motivated soul from securely ascending to the portals of Paradise.

(63.6) The Father desires all his creatures to be in personal communion with him. He has on Paradise a place to receive all those whose survival status and spiritual nature make possible such attainment. Therefore settle in your philosophy now and forever: To each of you and to all of us, God is approachable, the Father is attainable, the way is open; the forces of divine love and the ways and means of divine administration are all interlocked in an effort to facilitate the advancement of every worthy intelligence of every universe to the Paradise presence of the Universal Father.

(64.3) The great God makes direct contact with mortal man and gives a part of his infinite and eternal and incomprehensible self to live and dwell within him. God has embarked upon the eternal adventure with man. If you yield to the leadings of the spiritual forces in you and around you, you cannot fail to attain the high destiny established by a loving God as the universe goal of his ascendant creatures from the evolutionary worlds of space.

Peace.
Peace be upon you."

#36 Bonita

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 10:23 AM

Nearly everyone desires to stay in touch with personalities who graduate to the mansion worlds. I think it's a normal human longing to stay connected to personalities we are intimate with here on Urantia. TUB tells us that on the mansion worlds we are known by whom we associate with here in this life and that personality relationships have cosmic value that will persist regardless of where the personality happens to be.

112:5.22 But personality and the relationships between personalities are never scaffolding; mortal memory of personality relationships has cosmic value and will persist. On the mansion worlds you will know and be known, and more, you will remember, and be remembered by, your onetime associates in the short but intriguing life on Urantia.




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