Jump to content


Photo

Anger - Further Exploration


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 FTFSGRL

FTFSGRL

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 147 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 14 November 2011 - 01:21 PM

A quote posted by Bonita caught my interest, obviously to me, one worth mentioning for exploration.

149:4.2 Anger is a material manifestation which represents, in a general way, the measure of the failure of the spiritual nature to gain control of the combined intellectual and physical natures. Anger indicates your lack of tolerant brotherly love plus your lack of self-respect and self-control. Anger depletes the health, debases the mind, and handicaps the spirit teacher of man's soul. Have you not read in the Scriptures that 'wrath kills the foolish man,' and that man 'tears himself in his anger'? That 'he who is slow of wrath is of great understanding,' while 'he who is hasty of temper exalts folly'? You all know that 'a soft answer turns away wrath,' and how 'grievous words stir up anger.' 'Discretion defers anger,' while 'he who has no control over his own self is like a defenseless city without walls.' 'Wrath is cruel and anger is outrageous.' 'Angry men stir up strife, while the furious multiply their transgressions.' 'Be not hasty in spirit, for anger rests in the bosom of fools.'" Before Jesus ceased speaking, he said further: "Let your hearts be so dominated by love that your spirit guide will have little trouble in delivering you from the tendency to give vent to those outbursts of animal anger which are inconsistent with the status of divine sonship."

-anger is an internal characteristic of emotions.
-wrath is the action associated outwardly with anger
-I agree that anger depletes the heath debases the mind and handicaps the teacher of man's soul -but only when the emotion is not dealt with by that personality.
-I agree that those who are hasty of temper (a wrathful response or action without any thought) does exhalt folly.

Now, the way this paragraph is worded, one is lead to believe that anger(the emotion) and wrath(the action) is completely and always against the grain of Jesus' teachings.

(1890.1) 173:1.6 As Jesus was about to begin his address, two things happened to arrest his attention. At the money table of a near-by exchanger a violent and heated argument had arisen over the alleged overcharging of a Jew from Alexandria, while at the same moment the air was rent by the bellowing of a drove of some one hundred bullocks which was being driven from one section of the animal pens to another. As Jesus paused, silently but thoughtfully contemplating this scene of commerce and confusion, close by he beheld a simple-minded Galilean, a man he had once talked with in Iron, being ridiculed and jostled about by supercilious and would-be superior Judeans; and all of this combined to produce one of those strange and periodic uprisings of indignant emotion in the soul of Jesus.

(1890.2) 173:1.7 To the amazement of his apostles, standing near at hand, who refrained from participation in what so soon followed, Jesus stepped down from the teaching platform and, going over to the lad who was driving the cattle through the court, took from him his whip of cords and swiftly drove the animals from the temple. But that was not all; he strode majestically before the wondering gaze of the thousands assembled in the temple court to the farthest cattle pen and proceeded to open the gates of every stall and to drive out the imprisoned animals. By this time the assembled pilgrims were electrified, and with uproarious shouting they moved toward the bazaars and began to overturn the tables of the money-changers. In less than five minutes all commerce had been swept from the temple. By the time the near-by Roman guards had appeared on the scene, all was quiet, and the crowds had become orderly; Jesus, returning to the speaker's stand, spoke to the multitude: "You have this day witnessed that which is written in the Scriptures: 'My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations, but you have made it a den of robbers.'"

In this example, Jesus himself - who discerned what was happening around him - allowed an action that seems to have been out of anger.
The action itself was not harmful to others in itself, but still is an action out of anger. Did it produce fruit of the spirit? I believe it did with the general populace at the time, just not for those who were profiting from the actions(selling) that upset Jesus. Not only did it happen at this time, but it also mentions this reaction occured more than once as it states "periodic uprisings of indignant emotion".
In essence, even anger can result in good when discerned properly and handled properly.

Thoughts?

#2 Nigel Nunn

Nigel Nunn

    Poster

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 1,118 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 15 November 2011 - 10:28 AM

In this example, Jesus himself - who discerned what was happening around him - allowed an action that seems to have been out of anger.

Hi FTFSGRL, I don't see any "anger" here on the part of Jesus. His "indignant emotion" simply
led him to put a stop to a practice that was offensive to almost everyone present.

"silently but thoughtfully contemplating this scene of commerce and confusion"

... sounds more like a teacher noticing a teachable moment?

Nigel

#3 FTFSGRL

FTFSGRL

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 147 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 15 November 2011 - 11:29 AM

in·dig·nant/inˈdignənt/
Adjective:
Feeling or showing anger or annoyance at what is perceived as unfair treatment.
Synonyms:
resentful - angry

#4 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 15 November 2011 - 12:17 PM

Hi FTFSGRL, I don't see any "anger" here on the part of Jesus. His "indignant emotion" simply
led him to put a stop to a practice that was offensive to almost everyone present.

"silently but thoughtfully contemplating this scene of commerce and confusion"

... sounds more like a teacher noticing a teachable moment?


I wholeheartedly agree Nigel. There is a difference in the motivation behind anger and indignation. Jesus never displayed anger, but he did display a characteristic indignation which he inherited from his mother.

  • Anger tends to be a negative emotion, whereas indignation lends itself to positive action.
  • Anger tends to be destructive, whereas indignation tends to be constructive.
  • Anger is an emotion based upon feelings of displeasure and annoyance which generally leads to hostility and retaliation, whereas indignation is an emotion based upon feelings of injustice and unfairness which generally leads to actions designed to correct them.
  • Anger generally involves the ego and one's perceived self-importance, whereas indignation involves a perceived ideal of fairness and justice both for the self and others.
  • Anger is generally due to impatience and immaturity, whereas indignation is a sign of the evolution of maturity, particularly if one chooses to display it with self-control.


#5 Nigel Nunn

Nigel Nunn

    Poster

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 1,118 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 15 November 2011 - 12:27 PM

Hi FTFSGRL,

Had the authors meant angry, I think they would have used that word. Here, they used "indignant" to imply Jesus' response to something un-worthy (from "in-dignus"). For some of us, a feeling of indignation can lead to an angry response.

But on this day, I believe Jesus was in full command of himself, and chose an excellent action.

Nigel

#6 FTFSGRL

FTFSGRL

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 147 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 15 November 2011 - 01:45 PM

I am not questioning the response and action of Jesus.
Like I said, actions out of anger can cause good.
It is the motive.
A more distinctive def: 1. An anger aroused by something perceived as an indignity, notably an offense or injustice.
2. A self-righteous anger or disgust.
The basis for wrath and indignation is anger - but still is anger.

Bonita- by your observances of anger I would like to point out that:
"he strode majestically" implying "ego and one's perceived self-importance"
"took from him his whip of cords and swiftly drove the animals from the temple." implying "retaliation and impatience"
Anger - the emotion - in itself is neither destructive nor constructive until an action is made in regard to the emotion. In this same regard, anger is neither positive nor negative also until an action is made in regard to the emotion.

#7 Nigel Nunn

Nigel Nunn

    Poster

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 1,118 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 15 November 2011 - 03:14 PM

Hi FTFSGRL,

I think your definitions may be modern colloquial usage. Confusing indignation with anger is like confusing truth with fact. Colloquially, this may be common, but misses the mark.

Regarding the indignation aroused within Jesus that day, I'd put it like this:

Indignation may lead an adjutant-animated human to get angry; it motivates a soul-dweller to fix the problem.

That day, Jesus very neatly fixed a long-standing problem. And the people cheered!

Regarding "striding majestically", when you actually are majestic, "striding majestically" need imply neither "ego" nor misperceptions about self-importance :D

Nigel

#8 Guest_As-Above-So-Below_*

Guest_As-Above-So-Below_*
  • Guests

Posted 15 November 2011 - 08:27 PM

Hi, FTFSGRL
I happen to agree with you and I'm surprised that others cannot see or are not able to put themselves in the sandals of Jesus at that time and place and feel what he did. The underlined statement below seems to be evidence of anxiety and anger to me and also, that it was strange but periodic, which would indicate that this was not the only time Jesus felt these emotions.

"(1890.1) 173:1.6 As Jesus was about to begin his address, two things happened to arrest his attention. At the money table of a near-by exchanger a violent and heated argument had arisen over the alleged overcharging of a Jew from Alexandria, while at the same moment the air was rent by the bellowing of a drove of some one hundred bullocks which was being driven from one section of the animal pens to another. As Jesus paused, silently but thoughtfully contemplating this scene of commerce and confusion, close by he beheld a simple-minded Galilean, a man he had once talked with in Iron, being ridiculed and jostled about by supercilious and would-be superior Judeans; and all of this combined to produce one of those strange and periodic uprisings of indignant emotion in the soul of Jesus."

Not to mention that the following statement that Jesus made:

“You have this day witnessed that which is written in the Scriptures: ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations, but you have made it a den of robbers.'”

Note the words: "My House ..." -- Was Jesus not in His House at the time and implying that those were the rules of the house!

If this was going on in my house I would be pissed too! Sometimes you just have to let go and let your human emotions prevail.

Actually, one of the first times that Jesus got angry was when he was around ten years old or so and was playing on the rooftops with the other children of Galilee and one of the boys fell to his death. The locals unjustly accused Jesus of pushing the boy to his death. Jesus was angry at the accusations and at that time brought the boy back to life, and had a few choice words to say. The locals where so afraid of Jesus and what he could do that Mary and Joseph had to leave the area because of what might occur if Jesus became more angered, should the locals confront Him further.

At any rate it does show that Jesus was human and subject to anger and other emotions like everyone else. Yes, He did have an unusual way about Him but so does our Father in heaven.



#9 FTFSGRL

FTFSGRL

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 147 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:12 AM

Nigel,

I am not confusing indignation with anger. They are two separate things. Indignation is an outcome while anger is an emotion. Indignation is similar to wrath as wrath is an outcome of anger as well. Both are based on the emotion of anger. But like I said, it is the motivation that distinguishes the difference of wrath and indignation.

AASB,

Thank you for your response. I also believe one has to remember that Jesus was also human and also did have emotions, ALL emotions, as you know, like us regular humans do....lol I think as a human, Jesus was not perfect. Spiritually, he was and is, divine. What the true example of both is finding the balance between them such as Jesus did.

#10 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 16 November 2011 - 09:52 AM

Hi FTFSGRL,

I think your definitions may be modern colloquial usage. Confusing indignation with anger is like confusing truth with fact. Colloquially, this may be common, but misses the mark.

Regarding the indignation aroused within Jesus that day, I'd put it like this:

Indignation may lead an adjutant-animated human to get angry; it motivates a soul-dweller to fix the problem.

That day, Jesus very neatly fixed a long-standing problem. And the people cheered!

Regarding "striding majestically", when you actually are majestic, "striding majestically" need imply neither "ego" nor misperceptions about self-importance :D


I absolutely agree with you Nigel.

Jesus did not strut ostentatiously or flamboyantly; he strode majestically. The word majestic has nothing to do with ego; it is a word used to indicate nobility, dignity, splendor, beauty, sovereignty and greatness.

There are those who would debase the divinity of Jesus and embrace fictitious stories concerning his humanity – as in the apocryphal writing from the second century AD which propagated the folk tale legends found in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, in which Jesus is likened to a malevolent trickster god-child of Greek mythology; none of which is supported by the Urantia Book.

#11 menno

menno

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 201 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver BC
  • Interests:Lifetime pursuit: Searching for truth. Found the Urantia Book to be an excellent source. I feel fortunate to have an original 1955 copy of "Big Blue" given to me by a friend in the book selling Business. Hobbies: traveling through the mountains in my Yukon XL

Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:44 PM

Hi Nigel, Bonita, FTFSGRL and AASB

I have followed all of your posts on this interesting thread; concerning the time Jesus cleared out the Temple.

Way back in my life, way back before I found the Urantia Book, when (to my mind) there was only the Bible to read and learn about the life and times of Jesus; I used to ponder about that "Temple Clearing" event. Back then it always struck me that here was a time when Jesus really had a human emotional reaction to the crazy, sordid activities that went on in the temple.

Later on, after reading the account as conveyed by the invisible guides in the UB Part IV, I am still of the belief that it was an action carried out by the human emotional aspect of Jesus.
The UB gives me pieces of evidence that support that belief:

1. The very last bit at the end of (1890.1) paper 173:1.6 as noted by AASB yesterday
".....and all of this combined to produce one of those strange and periodic uprisings of indignant emotion in the soul of Jesus."

2. Paper 182 "In Gethsemane" This entire paper reveals the final struggle that went on within the soul of Jesus, as he transferred every last piece of his human mind's will over to the Will of The Father.

When I read of the tremendous struggle and supreme devotion to completely place everything into the hands of His Father...Our Father; it gives evidence that this complete and total surrender had not occurred up until that time.

So, in my mind, I believe that the actions, that Jesus took in clearing out the temple, were flavored by his human emotions. It did not seem like a calculated action of someone who is completely AT One with The Father. His teachings had been centered around quiet, inner actions. But, this was a physical action; surprising even to the invisible observers; because the main message (from Jesus) was one of a "Spiritual Kingdom" brought about by patience and understanding, not one brought about by physical actions.

#12 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 17 November 2011 - 11:27 AM

One of the most perplexing paradoxes in religion is the fact that Jesus is both fully human and fully divine. Jesus' human and divine natures do not work in partnership; they work in perfect union (136:1.6), and have done so since his baptism and ever will continue to do so. (136:2.7)

136:4.4 These forty days were the occasion of the final conference between the human and the divine minds, or rather the first real functioning of these two minds as now made one. The results of this momentous season of meditation demonstrated conclusively that the divine mind has triumphantly and spiritually dominated the human intellect. The mind of man has become the mind of God from this time on, and though the selfhood of the mind of man is ever present, always does this spiritualized human mind say, “Not my will but yours be done.”



What many have difficulty understanding is that after his baptism Jesus chose to live a human life. All life, not just human, is a continuous experiential phenomenon requiring ongoing adjustments. Throughout his human life Jesus fully experienced his human emotions, but at all times his divine self was in full control; in every new circumstance he conceded to the will of his heavenly Father. Mind, along with its emotions, and material living are always changing, but personality dominated by spirit is unchanging amidst change, it is thereby designed to transcend all experiential variables in order to align itself with the will of God. Jesus had mastered this as Sovereign; he is, after all, the Master.

One must remember that in the universe, mind always dominates matter and spirit always dominates mind. After his baptism, Jesus' mind, whether experiencing human or divine emotions, was always dominated by spirit, because that is the way of the universe and Jesus was and always will be Sovereign of this universe. Being Sovereign, he could not act otherwise, not while walking this earth as Jesus and not now as he continues his work on this earth in a relationship with every believer.

42:12.15 Mind universally dominates matter, even as it is in turn responsive to the ultimate overcontrol of spirit.

12:8.14 In the evolutionary cosmos energy-matter is dominant except in personality, where spirit, through the mediation of mind, is striving for the mastery. Spirit is the fundamental reality of the personality experience of all creatures because God is spirit. Spirit is unchanging, and therefore, in all personality relations, it transcends both mind and matter, which are experiential variables of progressive attainment.



#13 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:27 AM

... sounds more like a teacher noticing a teachable moment?


I'd like to further expound on Nigel's enlightened observation concerning Jesus' behavior. One of the most profound teachings of Jesus had to do with the implementation of the golden rule, which can be found on pages 1650-1651. He explained that there are six progressive levels of living the golden rule and the highest level attainable by humans beings is the spiritual:

6. The spiritual level. And then last, but greatest of all, we attain the level of spirit insight and spiritual interpretation which impels us to recognize in this rule of life the divine command to treat all men as we conceive God would treat them. That is the universe ideal of human relationships. And this is your attitude toward all such problems when your supreme desire is ever to do the Father's will. I would, therefore, that you should do to all men that which you know I would do to them in like circumstances.



Jesus implores us to treat all men as God would treat them, with fatherly love. And Jesus further says, " . . . do to all men that which you know I would do to them in like circumstances." By saying this, he is stating that he is our example of how to behave with fatherly love. That day in the Temple, Jesus was treating not only men, but all creatures, with fatherly love.

What is fatherly love but a love that teaches erring children the Father's loving ways. A loving father does not pamper and condone evil, neither does he punish with angry wrath. Jesus, being God incarnate, could do nothing less than love all of his creatures with a fatherly love, even when they misbehave.

140:5.12 A father’s love need not pamper, and it does not condone evil, but it is always anticynical. Fatherly love has singleness of purpose, and it always looks for the best in man; that is the attitude of a true parent.

140:5.24 Fatherly love delights in returning good for evil — doing good in retaliation for injustice.



Jesus taught the following concerning a father's discipline of his erring children:

142:2.4 Then Jesus went on to say: “When your children are very young and immature, and when you must chastise them, they may reflect that their father is angry and filled with resentful wrath. Their immaturity cannot penetrate beyond the punishment to discern the father’s farseeing and corrective affection. But when these same children become grown-up men and women, would it not be folly for them to cling to these earlier and misconceived notions regarding their father? As men and women they should now discern their father’s love in all these early disciplines.



A mature soul knows that Jesus is not now, and never was, angry or filled with resentful wrath over anyone's mistakes. Jesus lovingly embraced a teachable moment for his erring children that day in the Temple. To assign him with emotions of anger, impatience, wrath, arrogance or disdain would be admitting one's own immaturity in comprehending how to live the golden rule at its highest level of fatherly love.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users