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The Ideal Civilization


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#1 Rick Warren

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 09:54 AM

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Forum Friends,

In Section 12 of Paper 70, Development of the State, the Melchizedek author sums things up with a list wrought from deep wisdom and long, long experience. Most of the items of this list appear in other Papers, especially the five Papers on social evolution (68-72).

The list items all but beg a comparison from the reader, no matter what nation, country or territory you might be native to.

Melchizedek's dozen freedom maintainers:

P.798 - §5 If men would maintain their freedom, they must, after having chosen their charter of liberty, provide for its wise, intelligent, and fearless interpretation to the end that there may be prevented:

1. Usurpation of unwarranted power by either the executive or legislative branches.
2. Machinations of ignorant and superstitious agitators.
3. Retardation of scientific progress.
4. Stalemate of the dominance of mediocrity.
5. Domination by vicious minorities.
6. Control by ambitious and clever would-be dictators.
7. Disastrous disruption of panics.
8. Exploitation by the unscrupulous.
9. Taxation enslavement of the citizenry by the state.
10. Failure of social and economic fairness.
11. Union of church and state.
12. Loss of personal liberty.


After this list appeared in the OPAD study forum, member Bonita offered her assessment of the USA in comparison:

Bonita...I'd say that here in the US we're up to our eyeballs in all twelve except #11. We've become so secular that there is no "church" to unite with "state". I would also go so far as to say that we've surpassed #1 as well. We already have unwarranted power in the executive and legislative branches and we're moving toward unwarranted power in the judicial branch as well since it has become just another branch of the legislature. And don't we now see #7 almost every day where it has come to the point that panic is normal and disruption is our everyday world, a constant state of confusion and disarray leading to entropy rather than evolution? No wonder everyone is on drugs of some kind or another. I guess we'll just have to take a transcendental view and consider it like the yin and yang of existence. Or how about the Phoenix? Anyway, I live in hope that if we destroy ourselves by not preventing these twelve disasters from occurring, we will remake ourselves more wisely. But will war necessarily be part of it? Right now we are in a severe war of ideas and words; but, we're sitting on the precipice of it exploding into a physical war if the appropriate spark comes along to ignite it. It won't take much, which is why I pray for leaders. Not just the ones we have but new ones who can see all this happening and know what to do about it.


I don't see the US in quite the same way, but close. That said, I've seen worse times for my nation, like the 1960's. Now I pray with Bonita for our world's leaders, for their best wisdom and service, let Father lead Urantia out of the morasses.

I thought Bonita did a fair job of expressing an opinion, and without the distraction of polemics or politics, she kept it on the "idea level". And just this morning she posted another comparative and thoughtful opinion on this topic, also in the OPAD subforum, based on another of Melchizedek's lists. Hope she doesn't mind it being reposted here:

There's been absolutely no measurable movement on most and retrograde movement on many, in my opinion.


1. Preservation of individual liberties.
2. Protection of the home.
3. Promotion of economic security.
4. Prevention of disease.
5. Compulsory education.
6. Compulsory employment.
7. Profitable utilization of leisure.
8. Care of the unfortunate.
9. Race improvement.
10. Promotion of science and art.
11. Promotion of philosophy--wisdom.
12. Augmentation of cosmic insight--spirituality.


1. I think individual liberties are slowly being regulated out of existence. If I try to say what I think in public, there's a chance I could get killed. If I want to chop a tree down on my property I have to submit a petition to the tree gods. If I want to drive without my seat belt buckled, I have to face a huge fine. If I want to give a gift of a car to my son, I have to pay taxes on what I already paid taxes on. So, I can't say what I want, do what I want or give away what I want without someone trying to stop me.

2. And my home? I just switched my bathtub from steel to fiberglass. I had to get permission from the township and then have it inspected. Not to see if the plumbing was done correctly, but to see if I really removed the steel one and put in a fiberglass one. The inspector stood in the doorway of the bathroom and handed me a "pass" slip. Speaking of inspections, I can't sell my home without having the government inspect it to make sure it's green enough. My house is blue.

3. Economic security. I don't know if you noticed, but money is being sucked out of your accounts every day. It's just evaporating. And there's new legislation that gives the government the power to property rights over your checking account with the power of attorney to just suck money out to pay your health insurance bills.

4. We are doing a great deal to prevent disease, but I don't know if you noticed that every other day there is a study out that negates the study from the day before. And the government really decides what is best for your health anyway, not based on any studies, but what is best for the political climate or the planetary climate (same thing I'd say). We're not allowed to eat transfats, salt, or anything over 500 calories . . . that's this year, next year it will be something different. You never know for sure what's going to kill you because it keeps changing every other day.

5. We already have compulsory education. Truant officers will round up your kids if they're not in school and parents will go to jail if their kids aren't being educated. And, evidence keeps mounting that state run education is very busy spending all that money being sucked out of your accounts in order to create the finest example of mediocrity this planet has ever seen.

6. Compulsory unemployment is what we have now that unemployment benefits are slowly being extended for life.

7. Profitable utilization of leisure now includes hookers for football players and sky high ticket prices to watch almost naked performers make a lot of noise and obscene gestures. Then we have voyeurism on steroids with phone hacking and reality shows that have nothing at all to do with reality.

8. Care of the unfortunate means giving them whatever they need to remain unfortunate for life.

9. Race improvement means reparations, social justice and reverse discrimination. It's really just a matter of which race is considered to be on top of the race struggle. So it's not improvement, it's just movement of power from top to bottom, bottom to top.

10. Promotion of science means getting grants to prove whatever is politically expedient and will get you more grants. Promotion of art means more reality TV and trumped up exposure of the weird and bizarre.

11. Promotion of wisdom . . . . . there's none of that. We're going backwards on that.

12. Augmentation of cosmic insight . . . . I don't think you'll find a single person on the street that even knows what that means. We're going nowhere on that. We haven't even started yet, let alone go backwards.

So I'm very pessimistic about all of it for this generation, but very hopeful for future generations because they will be able to look back on these dark ages and be grateful that they came out of them, and will never want to go back. So all the ugliness serves a purpose in the long run . . . . hopefully.



***


If you would like to put your country up for comparison to one or more of these lists, please do. And add how you plan to assist your nation, indeed the whole planet, in avoiding freedom's perilous pitfalls and potholes on the long road to a society truly "quivering on the brink" of great, and hopefully positive change.







***

#2 Rick Warren

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 11:37 AM

Forum Friends.

Meredith added this to Bonita's reply:

Maybe things are just they way they should be for our time at the beginning of the 21st Century. After all we are talking about progressive development, and that means moving forward. You know the saying, two steps forward, one backward. The motion, though, is going forward, not backward.

Our world has a checkered history, starting with the mishaps of Caligastia, aka the "devil," some 500,000 years ago. Then the mishaps of Adam and Eve. After that Melechizedek did his best to keep God alive in the hearts and minds of the people. Then came Michael of Nebedon, a Paradise bestowal Son, some 2000 years ago.

P.584 - §2 Your world has been visited by four orders of sonship: Caligastia, the Planetary Prince; Adam and Eve of the Material Sons of God; Machiventa Melchizedek, the "sage of Salem" in the days of Abraham; and Christ Michael, who came as the Paradise bestowal Son. How much more effective and beautiful it would have been had Michael, the supreme ruler of the universe of Nebadon, been welcomed to your world by a loyal and efficient Planetary Prince and a devoted and successful Material Son, both of whom could have done so much to enhance the lifework and mission of the bestowal Son! But not all worlds have been so unfortunate as Urantia, neither has the mission of the Planetary Adams always been so difficult or so hazardous. When they are successful, they contribute to the development of a great people, continuing as the visible heads of planetary affairs even far into the age when such a world is settled in light and life.


There is no question we have tons of work to do on the points mentioned. When one gets pessimistic, I think it is advisable to recall, " Urantia is not proceeding in the normal order. Your world is out of step in the planetary procession." (P. 597)

God could have made this a perfect world. But he did not. Machiventa Melchizedek bestowed himself on our world on an emergency mission. Michael of Nebedon is the only bestowal son we've had. And how blessed we are. We've had him for 2000 years. But think of it. We are now in the postbestowal son age and you can see we are barely getting into this postbestowal age time period when are occurring so opportunities to progress.

P.596 - §6 The postbestowal Son age may extend from ten thousand to a hundred thousand years. There is no arbitrary time allotted to any of these dispensational eras. This is a time of great ethical and spiritual progress. Under the spiritual influence of these ages, human character undergoes tremendous transformations and experiences phenomenal development. It becomes possible to put the golden rule into practical operation. The teachings of Jesus are really applicable to a mortal world which has had the preliminary training of the prebestowal Sons with their dispensations of character ennoblement and culture augmentation.


But we haven't been blessed with the preliminary training of the prebestowal Sons with their dispensations, as have other normal worlds.

Simply put, I am saying we need to cut ourselves a little slack on these points. We are embryonic in development, not anywhere near maturity in development on these important points in my opinion.

This is one of my favorite statements:

P.2097 - §1 Be not discouraged; human evolution is still in progress, and the revelation of God to the world, in and through Jesus, shall not fail.


All the best,
Meredith



#3 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 02:23 PM

Forum Friends.

Meredith added this to Bonita's reply:


I corrected my comments, those that Rick posted above, in one detail. I previously said, "Our world has a checkered history, starting with the mishaps of Caligastia, aka the "devil," some 500,000 years ago." But it was really about 200,000 years ago when Caligastia surrendered to Lucifer's scheme. Here's a reference, though I do not want to derail this topic by mentioning the Lucifer rebellion. The Lucifer rebellion and the failure of Adam and Eve are part of the backdrop to a discussion of ideas about the ideal civilization.

P.752 - §4 From the arrival of Prince Caligastia, planetary civilization progressed in a fairly normal manner for almost three hundred thousand years. Aside from being a life-modification sphere and therefore subject to numerous irregularities and unusual episodes of evolutionary fluctuation, Urantia progressed very satisfactorily in its planetary career up to the times of the Lucifer rebellion and the concurrent Caligastia betrayal. All subsequent history has been definitely modified by this catastrophic blunder as well as by the later failure of Adam and Eve to fulfill their planetary mission.


Meredith :)

#4 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 10:30 AM

Hi Rick, all,

For the sake of discussion perhaps we could look into what constitutes civilization. They tell us the social consciousness is a cultural development, dependent upon knowledge, symbols and the contributions of science, morality, and religion. These cosmic factors must be "socialized" (maybe we could talk about what that means) to advance what we know as civilization.

P.196 - §0 The social consciousness is not inalienable like the God-consciousness; it is a cultural development and is dependent on knowledge, symbols, and the contributions of the constitutive endowments of man--science, morality, and religion. And these cosmic gifts, socialized, constitute civilization.


Here's a down-to-earth way to view the arrival of "civilization" from Paper 50 for starters.

P.577 - §2 4. The quest for knowledge and wisdom. Food, security, pleasure, and leisure provide the foundation for the development of culture and the spread of knowledge. The effort to execute knowledge results in wisdom, and when a culture has learned how to profit and improve by experience, civilization has really arrived. Food, security, and material comfort still dominate society, but many forward-looking individuals are hungering for knowledge and thirsting for wisdom. Every child is provided an opportunity to learn by doing; education is the watchword of these ages.


All the best,
Meredith

Edited by Meredith Van Woert, 25 August 2011 - 10:31 AM.


#5 FTFSGRL

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:13 AM

1. Preservation of individual liberties. - Going...going....gone....
2. Protection of the home. - Gone....
3. Promotion of economic security. - Gone....
4. Prevention of disease. - Gone....
5. Compulsory education. - Present....
6. Compulsory employment. - Present....
7. Profitable utilization of leisure. - Present....
8. Care of the unfortunate. - Not really.... (in good ethical fatih)
9. Race improvement. - Gone...
10. Promotion of science and art. - Not really well...
11. Promotion of philosophy--wisdom. - What? When common sense is no longer common...
12. Augmentation of cosmic insight--spirituality. - Stagnant

Sigh...

the way of the world....

#6 Rick Warren

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 06:06 AM

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Much enjoyed your monosyllabic style here, FTFSGRL. Care to apply it to another of Melchizedek's lists? This one is from the last Section of Paper 71. Can't help noting it has elements from several other of his lists.


P.806 - §15 The evolution of statehood entails progress from level to level, as follows:

1. The creation of a threefold government of executive, legislative, and judicial branches.

2. The freedom of social, political, and religious activities.

3. The abolition of all forms of slavery and human bondage.

4. The ability of the citizenry to control the levying of taxes.

5. The establishment of universal education--learning extended from the cradle to the grave.

6. The proper adjustment between local and national governments.

7. The fostering of science and the conquest of disease.

8. The due recognition of sex equality and the co-ordinated functioning of men and women in the home, school, and church, with specialized service of women in industry and government.

9. The elimination of toiling slavery by machine invention and the subsequent mastery of the machine age.

10. The conquest of dialects--the triumph of a universal language.

11. The ending of war--international adjudication of national and racial differences by continental courts of nations presided over by a supreme planetary tribunal automatically recruited from the periodically retiring heads of the continental courts. The continental courts are authoritative; the world court is advisory--moral.

12. The world-wide vogue of the pursuit of wisdom--the exaltation of philosophy. The evolution of a world religion, which will presage the entrance of the planet upon the earlier phases of settlement in light and life.



Your comments, reflections, insights invited~


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#7 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 11:30 AM

P.806 - §15 The evolution of statehood entails progress from level to level, as follows:

1. The creation of a threefold government of executive, legislative, and judicial branches.

2. The freedom of social, political, and religious activities.

3. The abolition of all forms of slavery and human bondage.

4. The ability of the citizenry to control the levying of taxes.

5. The establishment of universal education--learning extended from the cradle to the grave.

6. The proper adjustment between local and national governments.

<snipped>


Hi Rick, all,

My comments are references from the book. What I hope to show readers is one way to study the material in the book. Today I am showing you the first 6 points of Melchizedek's list, one by one, and each followed by one reference that pertains to it. A student can certainly find more than one reference that pertains to each point. But first this:

P.803 - §10 The ideals of statehood must be attained by evolution, by the slow growth of civic consciousness, the recognition of the obligation and privilege of social service. At first men assume the burdens of government as a duty, following the end of the administration of political spoilsmen, but later on they seek such ministry as a privilege, as the greatest honor. The status of any level of civilization is faithfully portrayed by the caliber of its citizens who volunteer to accept the responsibilities of statehood.


And the list from P.806 - §16:

1. The creation of a threefold government of executive, legislative, and judicial branches.

P.798 - §4 Urantia mortals are entitled to liberty; they should create their systems of government; they should adopt their constitutions or other charters of civil authority and administrative procedure. And having done this, they should select their most competent and worthy fellows as chief executives. For representatives in the legislative branch they should elect only those who are qualified intellectually and morally to fulfill such sacred responsibilities. As judges of their high and supreme tribunals only those who are endowed with natural ability and who have been made wise by replete experience should be chosen.


2. The freedom of social, political, and religious activities.

P.1087 - §6 Religionists must function in society, in industry, and in politics as individuals, not as groups, parties, or institutions. A religious group which presumes to function as such, apart from religious activities, immediately becomes a political party, an economic organization, or a social institution. Religious collectivism must confine its efforts to the furtherance of religious causes.


3. The abolition of all forms of slavery and human bondage.

P.779 - §7 True, slavery was oppressive, but it was in the schools of oppression that man learned industry. Eventually the slaves shared the blessings of a higher society which they had so unwillingly helped create. Slavery creates an organization of culture and social achievement but soon insidiously attacks society internally as the gravest of all destructive social maladies.


4. The ability of the citizenry to control the levying of taxes.

P.805 - §2 The ideal state undertakes to regulate social conduct only enough to take violence out of individual competition and to prevent unfairness in personal initiative. Here is a great problem in statehood: How can you guarantee peace and quiet in industry, pay the taxes to support state power, and at the same time prevent taxation from handicapping industry and keep the state from becoming parasitical or tyrannical?


5. The establishment of universal education--learning extended from the cradle to the grave.

P.412 - §6 The progression of eternity does not consist solely in spiritual development. Intellectual acquisition is also a part of universal education. The experience of the mind is broadened equally with the expansion of the spiritual horizon. Mind and spirit are afforded like opportunities for training and advancement. But in all this superb training of mind and spirit you are forever free from the handicaps of mortal flesh. No longer must you constantly referee the conflicting contentions of your divergent spiritual and material natures. At last you are qualified to enjoy the unified urge of a glorified mind long since divested of primitive animalistic trends towards things material.


6. The proper adjustment between local and national governments.

P.1491 - §2 Urantia nations have not possessed real sovereignty; they never have had a sovereignty which could protect them from the ravages and devastations of world wars. In the creation of the global government of mankind, the nations are not giving up sovereignty so much as they are actually creating a real, bona fide, and lasting world sovereignty which will henceforth be fully able to protect them from all war. Local affairs will be handled by local governments; national affairs, by national governments; international affairs will be administered by global government.


To continue your invitation Rick, "Your comments, reflections, insights invited~"


All the best,
Meredith

#8 Bonita

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 11:57 AM

Hi y'all. Survived Irene! Hooray!

Anyway, I've been thinking about this list and a lot of questions come up when I attempt to apply them to the current state of affairs in the US.

1. The creation of a threefold government of executive, legislative, and judicial branches.~~~ Well, we've created it, now what? Is it working in the ideal way that the revelators intend? If not, what needs to be fixed. I for one think the executive branch is gaining too much power; the legislative branch is a bureaucratic nightmare, more trouble than it's worth; and, the judicial branch has become a wing of the legislative branch. So, I don't think we're instituting this mandate very well. But we have created it, so that's something I guess.

2. The freedom of social, political, and religious activities.~~~ What the heck does this mean, really? Yeah, we have freedom on paper, we're free to attack each other socially, politically and religiously. One social group is always trying to curtail the freedoms of another; each political party lambastes the other in an attempt to wipe them out; and, religions are still engaged in warfare with each other. So, there's no real freedom; just freedom to fight over our freedom. We're free to engage in our own agenda and slaughter the competition. So, they say competition is supposed to replace war, but are they talking about mean and ugly competitiveness? If so, then we're there on some level already.

3. The abolition of all forms of slavery and human bondage.~~~ Does slavery to the almighty dollar count as human bondage? If so, how do you deal with this? Money can't be abolished easily, and would it even be wise? Perhaps an enlightened form of capitalism needs to evolve at this point in time.

4. The ability of the citizenry to control the levying of taxes.~~~ Control which way? More taxes, less taxes, only tax certain kinds of people and not others. How can you control something that no one agrees on? It's lunacy. But today, the citizenry does not have this control. It is the control of the legislative branch which is not entirely representative of the citizenry. It is mostly representative of the lobbying groups, whom are citizens, but not the "citizenry". Here I think education is critical, but who is there to educate when there are only competitive social, political and religious groups, groups who are generally out to annihilate each other?

5. The establishment of universal education--learning extended from the cradle to the grave. ~~~ Are they talking about universal mandatory education? Are they talking about actually matriculating at a university or other type of educational institution? Or, can you continue learning on your own without state involvement? I mean, who's going to pay for all of this? Are employers going to be stuck with the bill like they are now with health care, or is the state going to foot the bill? If the state foots the bill, then the state can dictate what you learn, where you learn it and from whom you learn it. I don't think that is freedom. I think we already have given people opportunities to educate themselves and it is up to each individual to be responsible for both learning and paying for it. I don't call it education when people expect to be spoon fed information free of charge. I think you have to earn an education, and then, once you know how to do that, you can continue for your entire life. In other words, I don't think that the revelators meant socialized education by the state.

6. The proper adjustment between local and national governments.~~~ I have no idea what they mean by this. Does anyone know? Do they mean states' rights with a small national government meant for defense and advisory purposes?

7. The fostering of science and the conquest of disease. ~~~ I think that we were making progress on this until just recently when we hit a retrogression. The space program has been cancelled and we are now focusing mostly on health fads that have little to do with the actual conquest of disease. There are still dedicated scientists though, so I have hope.

8. The due recognition of sex equality and the co-ordinated functioning of men and women in the home, school, and church, with specialized service of women in industry and government.~~~ I actually think we're making some progress on this, especially if you take the long view. It was only two generations ago that women stayed home and couldn't vote. Of course, don't get me started on the politics of the women's movement, which I think is retrogressive.

9. The elimination of toiling slavery by machine invention and the subsequent mastery of the machine age. ~~~ I think we've reached a critical phase with this. Machines have done much to get rid of toiling slavery, but they've put a lot of people out of work and there is nothing established as a replacement. If you look back just a few generations ago, most children left high school to go to work. Adolescents got the boot during the depression so men could have their jobs, then women came along during WWII and took their jobs. Now, because there is little work for them, teens are expected to stay in school and go to college; but that's only because there is nothing else for them to do. Idle kids are dangerous. (Check out all the recent riots here and elsewhere.) We're beginning to see this problem spread to the rest of the adult population with outsourcing and mechanization, but there is no alternative for them, unless, perhaps, we send them to school too. But then someone has to pay for it . . . who would that be? There aren't enough workers to pay that bill.

10. The conquest of dialects--the triumph of a universal language. ~~~ This is slowly happening out of the necessity for global communication.

11. The ending of war--international adjudication of national and racial differences by continental courts of nations presided over by a supreme planetary tribunal automatically recruited from the periodically retiring heads of the continental courts. The continental courts are authoritative; the world court is advisory--moral. ~~~ The stuff good fiction is made up of. Ain't gonna happen any time soon . . . can't even imagine it, frankly. But, it's a good idea waiting for its time.

12. The world-wide vogue of the pursuit of wisdom--the exaltation of philosophy. The evolution of a world religion, which will presage the entrance of the planet upon the earlier phases of settlement in light and life. ~~~ Wisdom! I don't think you can find two people who will agree on what that is. As long as philosophy is thought of as a form of logic, it will remain stuck within the ivied walls of universities, studied by the intellectually elite. I think the word "philosophy" has to include "common sense" in order to make it livable by the average person. A world religion? Which one? We're currently in a competition between two large religions, one that had world dominance and one that wants it. How do you solve that problem? Secularism seems to be a temporary antidote, but it's not designed to last. Something will have to give eventually . . . perhaps a philosophy of living centered around God the Father of all religions?

#9 Bonita

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 12:35 PM

1. The creation of a threefold government of executive, legislative, and judicial branches.

P.798 - §4 Urantia mortals are entitled to liberty; they should create their systems of government; they should adopt their constitutions or other charters of civil authority and administrative procedure. And having done this, they should select their most competent and worthy fellows as chief executives. For representatives in the legislative branch they should elect only those who are qualified intellectually and morally to fulfill such sacred responsibilities. As judges of their high and supreme tribunals only those who are endowed with natural ability and who have been made wise by replete experience should be chosen.


This is an excellent quote, but how can we apply it to the current situation in the US? Let's go sentence by sentence:

We should elect our most competent and worthy fellows as chief executives.

We have not established criteria to determine competency and worth. Anyone can run for president as long as they are a citizen. We generally vote based on popularity and charisma, and sometimes on party loyalty. None of those things have anything at all to do with competence and worth. Should there be a competency test for the presidency? Should they be forced to fit certain criteria that will prove their ability to function in the position, and if so, how do you do that? If we look at #11, it tells us that retired heads of state make up a planetary tribunal. Can you imagine some of our leaders, past and present, in that position? I can't. I think that a person has to have leadership qualities that can be applied to the entire world, a problem solver on a global scale. That takes wisdom, not just ideology. I don't think that speech giving ability or the willingness to make deals with powerful people are the only two skills necessary for leadership. How do you measure wisdom?

For representatives in the legislative branch they should elect only those who are qualified intellectually and morally to fulfill such sacred responsibilities.

Same thing here. Should our senators and congressmen take an IQ test and publish the results? What kind of intelligence are they talking about here? And, how do you know that someone is morally fit? I guess they should have a clean record, but who investigates this? Should there be morality police? It's a horrible thought. I think that there are very few politicians who think of their jobs as a sacred responsibility, and the few who have mentioned God get ridiculed for it . . . so right there we have a problem.

As judges of their high and supreme tribunals only those who are endowed with natural ability and who have been made wise by replete experience should be chosen.

How do you measure natural ability for a judge? Is there a test for open mindedness, fairness and wisdom? How much experience and what kind of experience is necessary to make a judge "wise"? I really don't know the answer to that, because my experience is that no one can agree on the criteria for what makes up a "wise" decision in the first place. We can argue all day over that one.

#10 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 02:28 PM

Criteria for selection are found in the inner man, and diversity of criteria, not uniformity of criteria, prevails. I am always grumbling about the apparent poverty of morality in the higher levels of US leadership. But the Most Highs rule in the kingdoms of men, even if to me those kingdoms are ruled by people who seem to me to be unfit for the trusteeship. The ballot box is effective in selecting leaders. But I am comforted to know that leadership on our world is very much helped by the Angels of Progress, among other influences, and those who are members of the Reserve Corps of Destiny. Here's a bit about the reserve corps:



P.1257 - §1 The reserve corps of destiny consists of living men and women who have been admitted to the special service of the superhuman administration of world affairs. This corps is made up of the men and women of each generation who are chosen by the spirit directors of the realm to assist in the conduct of the ministry of mercy and wisdom to the children of time on the evolutionary worlds. It is the general practice in the conduct of the affairs of the ascension plans to begin this liaison utilization of mortal will creatures immediately they are competent and trustworthy to assume such responsibilities. Accordingly, as soon as men and women appear on the stage of temporal action with sufficient mental capacity, adequate moral status, and requisite spirituality, they are quickly assigned to the appropriate celestial group of planetary personalities as human liaisons, mortal assistants.

When human beings are chosen as protectors of planetary destiny, when they become pivotal individuals in the plans which the world administrators are prosecuting, at that time the planetary chief of seraphim confirms their temporal attachment to the seraphic corps and appoints personal destiny guardians to serve with these mortal reservists. All reservists have self-conscious Adjusters, and most of them function in the higher cosmic circles of intellectual achievement and spiritual attainment.

Mortals of the realm are chosen for service in the reserve corps of destiny on the inhabited worlds because of:

1. Special capacity for being secretly rehearsed for numerous possible emergency missions in the conduct of various activities of world affairs.

2. Wholehearted dedication to some special social, economic, political, spiritual, or other cause, coupled with willingness to serve without human recognition and rewards.

3. The possession of a Thought Adjuster of extraordinary versatility and probable pre-Urantia experience in coping with planetary difficulties and contending with impending world emergency situations.


Who dares to say that the chief executives of the representative governments on our world are not reservists? But popular elections, they tell us, represent the right way even to do a wrong thing. What does this mean? To do what wrong thing?

P.802 - §2 The measure of the advance of society is directly determined by the degree to which public opinion can control personal behavior and state regulation through nonviolent expression. The really civilized government had arrived when public opinion was clothed with the powers of personal franchise. Popular elections may not always decide things rightly, but they represent the right way even to do a wrong thing. Evolution does not at once produce superlative perfection but rather comparative and advancing practical adjustment.


Maybe they mean two steps forward, one step backward, two steps forward, and so on, as long as we're going forward.

Meredith

#11 menno

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 06:16 PM

Hi Meredith;

Your statement " Who dares to say that the chief executives of the representative governments on our world are not reservists ? "
really got my attention.

If you had said "some of the chief executives......" I probably wouldn't have clicked on the "reply" button. But, the way that sentence reads, it comes across as saying ".....all chief executives of the representative governments...."

So, if we look at what is probably the highest example of what one could call a representative government; the USA, and have a quick look at who were the chief executives, over the past 80 years, my personal opinion rates them as follows:

Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933 - 1945) Yes ! Looking back on all that this man faced. a huge depression, and dealing with a world war threatening freedom loving people from two sides (Pacific and Atlantic) it sure looks like he fit the bill.

Harry S. Truman (1945 - 1953) No ! One very big reason; He authorized the use of two nuclear weapons against the people of Japan.

Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953 - 1961) Probably a yes. Some experts rate him as one of the top ten presidents in US History. Can't see any problem with that

John F. Kennedy (1961 - 1963) ????? On the surface, most people would probably rate this person quite highly. But, Reserve Corps of Destiny
mortals are chosen for much deeper values.....found at the heart level.

Lyndon B. Johnson (1963 - 1969) No ! Similar to reasons for Truman. For all the good that Johnson did regarding improvements re: race relations
in the US; That decision made concerning the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution; whereby Johnson obtained
authorization to do whatever necessary involving the Vietnam Civil War, without needing formal declaration of
war by Congress. This being brought about by a false flag attack on US ships. A falsehood known by Johnson.
Hundreds of thousands of people killed and millions maimed over the following 11 years.

Richard M. Nixon (1969 - 1974) No ! No comments needed

Gerald R. Ford (1974 - 1977) Probably Yes. Took over after the President and the Vice-President both resigned from office. The USA needed someone
very stable and capable to take care of the country until regular elections could resume.

James E. Carter (1977-1981) Probably Yes. Seems to have been a very peace loving President during a time when the USSR was ramping up the cold war

Ronald W. Reagan (1981-1989) ???????? First he escalated the cold war with the USSR. Then he helped bring it to an end. His economic policies
were questionable. Appeared to help the rich people more than the poor. Helped Iraq in their war with Iran.

George H. W. Bush (1989 - 1993) No. Lied to the American public. Too many skeletons in the closet..still rattling around from his years as director
of CIA.

William J. Clinton (1993-2001) ???????? No Comments

George W. Bush (2001-2009) No. Ordered attack on Iraq despite majority of other global governments objections. Rational for the attack
and invasion based on flimsy evidence. result of the attack and invasion....millions of Iraq citizens killed
and maimed. Thousands of US soldiers killed and maimed. Situation still chaotic in that country.
Fear level of US public citizens increased over his 8 years in office.

Barack Hussein Obama (2009 - ?) ? Too early to call. Appears to have his heart in the right place.

I could be totally out to lunch on this, but by my count I see 5 possible Reserve Corps of Destiny Chief Executives out of 13 .

#12 Bonita

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 06:48 PM

Who dares to say that the chief executives of the representative governments on our world are not reservists?



Who dares, you ask? I do. I dare to ask. I don't know of a single politician who is willing "to serve without human recognition and rewards". You have to be kidding me!

#13 FTFSGRL

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 08:29 PM

answers are bolded to see them... no other reason intended....

P.806 - §15 The evolution of statehood entails progress from level to level, as follows:

1. The creation of a threefold government of executive, legislative, and judicial branches. - epic fail

2. The freedom of social, political, and religious activities. - epic fail

3. The abolition of all forms of slavery and human bondage. - epic fail

4. The ability of the citizenry to control the levying of taxes. - epic fail

5. The establishment of universal education--learning extended from the cradle to the grave. - fail

6. The proper adjustment between local and national governments. - fail

7. The fostering of science and the conquest of disease. - epic fail

8. The due recognition of sex equality and the co-ordinated functioning of men and women in the home, school, and church, with specialized service of women in industry and government. - epic fail

9. The elimination of toiling slavery by machine invention and the subsequent mastery of the machine age. - fail

10. The conquest of dialects--the triumph of a universal language. - fail

11. The ending of war--international adjudication of national and racial differences by continental courts of nations presided over by a supreme planetary tribunal automatically recruited from the periodically retiring heads of the continental courts. The continental courts are authoritative; the world court is advisory--moral. - EPIC fail

12. The world-wide vogue of the pursuit of wisdom--the exaltation of philosophy. The evolution of a world religion, which will presage the entrance of the planet upon the earlier phases of settlement in light and life. - EPIC fail.... when commom sense isn't common....this is a FAR reach lol


sigh....

the way of the world....

HA deja vu....

#14 FTFSGRL

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 08:30 PM

answers are bolded to see them... no other reason intended....

P.806 - §15 The evolution of statehood entails progress from level to level, as follows:

1. The creation of a threefold government of executive, legislative, and judicial branches. - epic fail

2. The freedom of social, political, and religious activities. - epic fail

3. The abolition of all forms of slavery and human bondage. - epic fail

4. The ability of the citizenry to control the levying of taxes. - epic fail

5. The establishment of universal education--learning extended from the cradle to the grave. - fail

6. The proper adjustment between local and national governments. - fail

7. The fostering of science and the conquest of disease. - epic fail

8. The due recognition of sex equality and the co-ordinated functioning of men and women in the home, school, and church, with specialized service of women in industry and government. - epic fail

9. The elimination of toiling slavery by machine invention and the subsequent mastery of the machine age. - fail

10. The conquest of dialects--the triumph of a universal language. - fail

11. The ending of war--international adjudication of national and racial differences by continental courts of nations presided over by a supreme planetary tribunal automatically recruited from the periodically retiring heads of the continental courts. The continental courts are authoritative; the world court is advisory--moral. - EPIC fail

12. The world-wide vogue of the pursuit of wisdom--the exaltation of philosophy. The evolution of a world religion, which will presage the entrance of the planet upon the earlier phases of settlement in light and life. - EPIC fail.... when commom sense isn't common....this is a FAR reach lol


sigh....

the way of the world....

HA deja vu....



#15 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 09:01 PM

Who dares, you ask? I do. I dare to ask. I don't know of a single politician who is willing "to serve without human recognition and rewards". You have to be kidding me!


Actually, I said, "Who dares to say . . ." that they aren't reservists. Furthermore, who dares to say they are not willing to serve without human recognition and rewards? People are always ready to pick flaws, raise questions, find objections in these matters. I always remind myself that I do not know what motivates an individual who has chosen to pursue a career in local, state or national government. One may like or not like those who have been elected to office on any level of government, due rational or irrational reasons. Menno has given some of his reasons. FTFSGRL has offered some.

But I am of the opinion that we do not know an individual's motivation. We don't know if he/she is a reservist, and we simply don't know whether or not an individual is willing to serve without human recognition or reward. But God knows.

Too bad we don't have a Material Son and Daughter here to help us. We're on our own (with all the gifts of God) to figure this out by trial and error, even as we aim to attract the best of the best to serve in high positions of government.

P.911 - §6 15. The prevention of transitional breakdown. Society is the offspring of age upon age of trial and error; it is what survived the selective adjustments and readjustments in the successive stages of mankind's agelong rise from animal to human levels of planetary status. The great danger to any civilization--at any one moment--is the threat of breakdown during the time of transition from the established methods of the past to those new and better, but untried, procedures of the future.


We have to find a new kinds of statesman and stateswomen, those who view their public service as a privilege and the greatest honor. Perhaps we need new procedures and methods, ones that have not yet been tried.

P.803 - §10 The ideals of statehood must be attained by evolution, by the slow growth of civic consciousness, the recognition of the obligation and privilege of social service. At first men assume the burdens of government as a duty, following the end of the administration of political spoilsmen, but later on they seek such ministry as a privilege, as the greatest honor. The status of any level of civilization is faithfully portrayed by the caliber of its citizens who volunteer to accept the responsibilities of statehood.


All the best,
Meredith

Edited by Meredith Van Woert, 28 August 2011 - 09:03 PM.


#16 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 07:49 AM

I always remind myself that I do not know what motivates an individual ...

Reminds me of perspective. We all remember that snarling savage [(1098.2) 100:4.5],
and having to rework our opinions once we notice that sabre-toothed tiger in front, and
his family behind. Likewise, once we get a Jerusem perspective, the role of head of a
government seems less like a pinnacle of power; more like caretaker at a kindergarten.

All this amazing world needs is a few soul-dwellers to step up.
Nigel

#17 Bonita

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 09:26 AM

All this amazing world needs is a few soul-dwellers to step up.


It takes more than just a soul dweller. It takes leadership qualities and not every soul dweller has what it takes to be a leader. Spirituality is a prerequisite for every position and every job, but it is not the only criteria that determines one's capacity for a leadership role. My questions in previous posts were meant to investigate what those criteria are. What goes into making a great leader besides religion?

99:3.15 Religionists, as a group, must never concern themselves with anything but religion, albeit any one such religionist, as an individual citizen, may become the outstanding leader of some social, economic, or political reconstruction movement

.

TUB tells us that war determined the great leaders of the past, including even Moses. Today our leaders must come from industry, science and social achievement. Notice, the quote says nothing about leaders coming from law schools or university political science programs. Can you imagine a scientist being president?

70:2.21 But even in passing, war should be honored as the school of experience which compelled a race of arrogant individualists to submit themselves to highly concentrated authority — a chief executive. Old-fashioned war did select the innately great men for leadership, but modern war no longer does this. To discover leaders society must now turn to the conquests of peace: industry, science, and social achievement.



We are also told that wise leadership requires the ability to get people to cooperate and work together. But just being an organizer isn't enough, as we have so recently come to realize; motivating people to work together is a big part of leadership. It's about getting everyone to agree on a goal and then pull their load in a coordinated fashion so things get done. That means that a good leader must be able to inspire all kinds of people and have enough wisdom to know how not to alienate the opposition to the point of inertia, or worse, revenge. (Our current situation.)

81:6.37 13. Effective and wise leadership. In civilization much, very much, depends on an enthusiastic and effective load-pulling spirit. Ten men are of little more value than one in lifting a great load unless they lift together — all at the same moment. And such teamwork — social co-operation — is dependent on leadership. The cultural civilizations of the past and the present have been based upon the intelligent co-operation of the citizenry with wise and progressive leaders; and until man evolves to higher levels, civilization will continue to be dependent on wise and vigorous leadership.



We also are told that great leaders must be meek and responsive to human needs:

140:5.16 Moses, the mourner, was a greater man than either Samson or Goliath. Moses was a superb leader, but he was also a man of meekness. Being sensitive and responsive to human need creates genuine and lasting happiness, while such kindly attitudes safeguard the soul from the destructive influences of anger, hate, and suspicion.



We know that women are more likely to be meek and TUB tells us they are mankind's spiritual leaders . . . (so why is it that throughout history, only men have become great spiritual leaders?) I think women have always been the backbone, the foundation of society, rather than the actual up front leaders. Currently, women's leadership role is evolving and time will tell whether or not the intuitive and less logical approach is more productive at this time in our history.

84:6.4 Women seem to have more intuition than men, but they also appear to be somewhat less logical. Woman, however, has always been the moral standard-bearer and the spiritual leader of mankind. The hand that rocks the cradle still fraternizes with destiny.



And although I disagree with Meredith's position that the gods oversee all of our leaders by putting reservists in position of authority, I do agree that one's leadership capacity probably does depend upon the type of Adjuster a person has. And since self-acting Adjusters are dependent upon a person entering the third psychic circle, and since fewer and fewer people are capable of hosting a self-acting Adjuster, I have to assume that there are fewer and fewer good leaders coming up through the ranks.

109:4.3-4 The type of Adjuster has much to do with the potential for expression of the human personality. On down through the ages, many of the great intellectual and spiritual leaders of Urantia have exerted their influence chiefly because of the superiority and previous experience of their indwelling Adjusters.
The indwelling Adjusters have in no small measure co-operated with other spiritual influences in transforming and humanizing the descendants of the primitive men of olden ages. If the Adjusters indwelling the minds of the inhabitants of Urantia were to be withdrawn, the world would slowly return to many of the scenes and practices of the men of primitive times; the divine Monitors are one of the real potentials of advancing civilization.



So maybe that is what you mean Nigel, by soul dwellers stepping up. We need to foster religious and spiritual leaders before we can begin to see enough soul dwellers with the capacity for real leadership emerge who are capable of impacting the world in a positive way. It all begins with religion and my country (along with many others) is working feverishly to stomp out religion – hence my belief that we are in a significant retrogression. Significant.

195:9.4 Religion does need new leaders, spiritual men and women who will dare to depend solely on Jesus and his incomparable teachings. If Christianity persists in neglecting its spiritual mission while it continues to busy itself with social and material problems, the spiritual renaissance must await the coming of these new teachers of Jesus’ religion who will be exclusively devoted to the spiritual regeneration of men. And then will these spirit-born souls quickly supply the leadership and inspiration requisite for the social, moral, economic, and political reorganization of the world.



#18 menno

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:31 AM

All this amazing world needs is a few soul-dwellers to step up.
Nigel



Maybe more than just a few "soul-dwellers" are stepping in, if the new arrivals..the children who have arrived here on Urantia over the past 20 to 30 years..the ones that have been called "The Indigo Children" and then more recently. the ones called "The Crystal Children" are actually more advanced than what had been the norm.

Only time will tell.

Menno

#19 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:22 AM

Maybe more than just a few "soul-dwellers" are stepping in, if the new arrivals..the children who have arrived here on Urantia over the past 20 to 30 years..the ones that have been called "The Indigo Children" and then more recently. the ones called "The Crystal Children" are actually more advanced than what had been the norm.


In Paper 69 we're informed of the need to foster the normal or average stabilized human being instead of the extremes.

P.771 - §0 Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being instead of the extremes of the supernormal and the enormously increasing groups of the subnormal? The normal man should be fostered; he is the backbone of civilization and the source of the mutant geniuses of the race. The subnormal man should be kept under society's control; no more should be produced than are required to administer the lower levels of industry, those tasks requiring intelligence above the animal level but making such low-grade demands as to prove veritable slavery and bondage for the higher types of mankind.


The average is the backbone of civilization. They are the source of the geniuses of the races. Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average?

All the best,
Meredith

#20 Bonita

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:40 AM

Maybe more than just a few "soul-dwellers" are stepping in, if the new arrivals..the children who have arrived here on Urantia over the past 20 to 30 years..the ones that have been called "The Indigo Children" and then more recently. the ones called "The Crystal Children" are actually more advanced than what had been the norm.


I know that there are mechanisms currently in place to foster the more spiritual type of human, but I doubt that it has anything at all to do with this new age parapsychology, pseudoscience fad which is a complete fantasy designed by some kooky people to sell books, in my opinion.

110:4.6 For many thousands of years, so the records of Jerusem show, in each generation there have lived fewer and fewer beings who could function safely with self-acting Adjusters. This is an alarming picture, and the supervising personalities of Satania look with favor upon the proposals of some of your more immediate planetary supervisors who advocate the inauguration of measures designed to foster and conserve the higher spiritual types of the Urantia races.






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