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#1 Guest_rich_*

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 11:16 AM

26:1.17 These brilliant creatures of light are sustained directly by the intake of the spiritual energy of the primary circuits of the universe. Urantia mortals must obtain light-energy through the vegetative incarnation, but the angelic hosts are encircuited; they “have food that you know not.” They also partake of the circulating teachings of the marvelous Trinity Teacher Sons; they have a reception of knowledge and an intake of wisdom much resembling their technique of assimilating the life energies.

they do say vegetative incarnation, i think they're implying that we should be vegetarians.

#2 Bonita

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:10 PM

We do obtain our energy through vegetative incarnation even when we eat animals. Plant life is at the bottom of the food chain. Even strict carnivores eat animals who originally get their energy from eating plants. Animals cannot produce their own energy; they have to rely on plants that can produce energy for them by converting sunlight by the process of photosynthesis. It doesn't matter where the plants show up in the food chain.

Chances are, in the millennia to come, mankind will prefer to be vegetarian, but there is no special righteousness attached to that behavior. It doesn't make you a better, more moral person.

#3 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 03:14 PM

Hi rich,

i think they're implying ...

When questions of diet come up, I always wonder: could Adam and
Eve synthesize, internally, their own vitamin C. What do you think?

Nigel

#4 Bill Martin

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 10:47 PM

I know Jesus made a mighty effort to substitute the sacrifice of the symbol of innocent purity at Passover, the Paschal Lamb. My own take on this was he was attacking the hold the idea of the symbol had on the practitioners, that our Father, who is love, requires propitiation for "original" sin. I am not sure the Master was attempting to change the dietary habits of the Hebrews, just their understanding of God.

Then again, what did the assembled hosts feed the multitude? Fishes and Loaves. And Jesus WAS a fisherman, among many other careers.

He did say, " But hearken while I tell you the truth concerning those things which morally defile and spiritually contaminate men. I declare it is not that which enters the body by the mouth or gains access to the mind through the eyes and ears, that defiles the man. Man is only defiled by that evil which may originate within the heart, and which finds expression in the words and deeds of such unholy persons
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#5 Guest_rich_*

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:55 AM

why do you wonder this? i'm not a scientist but i imagine everyone synthesizes their vitamin c.

Hi rich,


When questions of diet come up, I always wonder: could Adam and
Eve synthesize, internally, their own vitamin C. What do you think?

Nigel



#6 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 12:33 PM

Hi rich,

why do you wonder this? i'm not a scientist but i imagine everyone synthesizes their vitamin c.

As it turns out, we Sangik-derived hominids are one of the few mammals that cannot. We lack a basic biochemical capacity to make it. Now, as vitamin C is so important, and since almost every other mammal makes it for themselves, my guess is that Adam, Eve, and their children would not have been so biochemically disabled.

Which raises the more interesting question: of the 8 amino acids that we (Sangik-derived) humans cannot synthesize, how many could the Adamic biochemistry build? Again, let's assume their violet biochemistry was not as disabled as ours, and that they did not need to get all 8 of those essential amino acids from their food (Google for details). Imagine they could synthesize one or more of them.

If so, their dietary requirements might have been slightly different to ours. As an example, during the 1960's many people experimented with various aspects of their lives. Diet was one of the first things they explored. Funny thing was that some thrived on (well-designed) vegetarian diets, while their friends grew weak and sick. This large-scale experiment seems to imply that not all human digestive systems are the same.

All of which has made me wonder, and thus my question about vitamin C.

Nigel

#7 FTFSGRL

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 08:59 AM

hmmmm...

consider: vegetative = environment; incarnate = must have personality & plant life lacks personality.... therefore I would assume this quote to imply meat eaters, not vegetarians. Also since plant life lacks personality, there would not be any spiritual energy....

? Something to ponder....

#8 Bonita

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 10:23 AM

consider: vegetative = environment; incarnate = must have personality & plant life lacks personality.... therefore I would assume this quote to imply meat eaters, not vegetarians. Also since plant life lacks personality, there would not be any spiritual energy....

? Something to ponder....


Incarnate is derived from the latin word incarnatus which literally means “made flesh.” Incarnate vegetation is vegetation that has been made into flesh, in other words, transformed into flesh (through consumption). One might infer that incarnation requires personality, but it actually refers only to the flesh, the physical body.

But that aside, personality is not part of this formula. Personality is not energy. Personality utilizes energy. Personality is the pattern that configures energy. Personality is not spirit, it unifies with spirit. Plants are not designed to give us spiritual energy. Plants give us physical energy. Spiritual energy only comes from spiritual sources and the secret to spiritual energy is the Eternal Son. (0:5.5)

Since we are unable to know the Eternal Son while here on our lowly planet, we derive our spiritual energy from his Son via the Spirit of Truth, the living vine..

16:8.2 Though we can hardly undertake to define personality, we may attempt to narrate our understanding of the known factors which go to make up the ensemble of material, mental, and spiritual energies whose interassociation constitutes the mechanism wherein and whereon and wherewith the Universal Father causes his bestowed personality to function.

12:6.4 In all your contemplation of universal phenomena, make certain that you take into consideration the interrelation of physical, intellectual, and spiritual energies, and that due allowance is made for the unexpected phenomena attendant upon their unification by personality and for the unpredictable phenomena resulting from the actions and reactions of experiential Deity and the Absolutes.

194:4.4 What has happened to these men whom Jesus had ordained to go forth preaching the gospel of the kingdom, the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man? They have a new gospel; they are on fire with a new experience; they are filled with a new spiritual energy.

180:2.4And such a will-union is effected by and through Jesus even as the life of the vine flows into and through the living branches.



So, the moral of the story is that eating vegetables will not make you holy. You can't get holy from physical energy; you need contact with spiritual energy. Therefore, partaking of the living vine will make you holy. It is my opinion that people who carry on about the purity and morality of eating vegetables are misinformed, misguided and misdirected prophets who do nothing but mislead. It's the whited sepulcher syndrome (WSS). Better to expend all that energy on prayer, a more effective purifier.

#9 FTFSGRL

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 10:45 AM

in Paper 7: "incarnate their divine personalities as the actual creatures themselves. ."

paper 119: "Michael was probably going to incarnate in the likeness of his various orders of universe personalities"

paper 185: "Here stood the Son of God incarnate as the Son of Man."

and most importantly paper 107: "The Adjusters are the actuality of the Father’s love incarnate in the souls of men"

Now, of course, it all depends on who you think God truly is. He's not physical/material/of this world...

Dictionary def which is also mine:
incarnate
adj [ɪnˈkɑːnɪt -neɪt] (usually immediately postpositive)
1. possessing bodily form esp human
2. personified or typified

#10 Cal

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 04:42 PM

Hi rich,


As it turns out, we Sangik-derived hominids are one of the few mammals that cannot. We lack a basic biochemical capacity to make it. Now, as vitamin C is so important, and since almost every other mammal makes it for themselves, my guess is that Adam, Eve, and their children would not have been so biochemically disabled.

Which raises the more interesting question: of the 8 amino acids that we (Sangik-derived) humans cannot synthesize, how many could the Adamic biochemistry build? Again, let's assume their violet biochemistry was not as disabled as ours, and that they did not need to get all 8 of those essential amino acids from their food (Google for details). Imagine they could synthesize one or more of them. If so, their dietary requirements might have been slightly different to ours.


Hi Nigel,

I thought that was an interesting thing to consider. I have my doubts after thinking about it, if endogenous vitamin C and the extra 8 amino acid production were features of Adamic biochemistry then these would be traits that should pop up in modern populations to some degree, passed from the Adamites even if they were from recessive alleles. I'm pretty sure nobody is known to be able to make their own vitamin C (maybe I'm wrong). Other traits of the violet race are said to have persisted, and as biologically advantageous ones, vitamin C synthesis and extra amino acid production don't seem likely to have been entirely lost after being bestowed from a population that otherwise has left an influence in modern people's genetic inheritance, like the Adamites did.

Scientists think the mutation in primates that caused vitamin C to no longer be produced happened about 60 million years ago. So it appears to go back way further than Sangik history and isn't just that Sangik-derived hominids can't make it.

This is the clade of primates can't make their own vitamin C (includes humans, but also tarsiers, monkeys, apes):
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Haplorrhini

This clade can:
http://en.wikipedia....i/Strepsirrhine


As an example, during the 1960's many people experimented with various aspects of their lives. Diet was one of the first things they explored. Funny thing was that some thrived on (well-designed) vegetarian diets, while their friends grew weak and sick. This large-scale experiment seems to imply that not all human digestive systems are the same.


I wonder if the difference between some people tolerating it or not is due to differences in gut flora:

http://www.huliq.com...ple-three-types

Best,

Cal

Edited by Cal, 13 July 2011 - 04:48 PM.


#11 Guest_rich_*

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 12:05 PM

i've been involved in the raw food community for years so what i know is that it's a mind, body, spirit connection and yes, in that way, some may die or grow sick from vegetarianism or the raw food diet, in my opinion, because there's a mindal connection to the meat eating diet that we grow up with that we can't overcome. there is scientific evidence that says we can't exist as vegetarians or raw foodists and there is scientific people who will say the opposite. 195:7.22 The universe is not like the laws, mechanisms, and the uniformities which the scientist discovers, and which he comes to regard as science, but rather like the curious, thinking, choosing, creative, combining, and discriminating scientist who thus observes universe phenomena and classifies the mathematical facts inherent in the mechanistic phases of the material side of creation.

my belief is simply that we are bodily meant to be vegetarian and i think the loving god made us that way. all the scientific evidence that points away from this principle is not something i believe in. adam and eve did not eat meat and i think the loving god did not make us or allow us to grow evolutionary any different than adam and eve biologically.

Hi rich,


As it turns out, we Sangik-derived hominids are one of the few mammals that cannot. We lack a basic biochemical capacity to make it. Now, as vitamin C is so important, and since almost every other mammal makes it for themselves, my guess is that Adam, Eve, and their children would not have been so biochemically disabled.

Which raises the more interesting question: of the 8 amino acids that we (Sangik-derived) humans cannot synthesize, how many could the Adamic biochemistry build? Again, let's assume their violet biochemistry was not as disabled as ours, and that they did not need to get all 8 of those essential amino acids from their food (Google for details). Imagine they could synthesize one or more of them.

If so, their dietary requirements might have been slightly different to ours. As an example, during the 1960's many people experimented with various aspects of their lives. Diet was one of the first things they explored. Funny thing was that some thrived on (well-designed) vegetarian diets, while their friends grew weak and sick. This large-scale experiment seems to imply that not all human digestive systems are the same.

All of which has made me wonder, and thus my question about vitamin C.

Nigel



#12 Bill Martin

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 11:53 AM

You can't eat your way into heaven.
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#13 FTFSGRL

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 11:55 AM

You can't eat your way into heaven.


LMAO!!!! :)

#14 Bonita

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 01:49 PM

You can't eat your way into heaven.


So now you tell me this? Now that I've spent 60 years fixated on the wonderfulness of food?

#15 Bill Martin

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 08:16 PM

Yes food is wonderful and because I was given few talents in the artistic or musical area my focus is on giving many many people a wonderfully conceived, prepared and presented experience that I assemble in various places.

The Home is the basic institution for the transmission of values from one generation to the next and the kitchen is the soul of the home. I am a six foot 280lb home maker and love to make people feel "at home" wherever we may be. This is my little contribution and I cook weekly at our pre-study group meal, always considerate of vegans and those with food allergies.

The slight loss of perspicacity (from digestion robbing the brain) is more than compensated by the warm and lovely glow of togetherness and family that comes from sharing a good meal.
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#16 Guest_rich_*

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 05:09 PM

i don't do it but i try to believe in the idea that food is fuel, my activity should be spent with people as much as possible in non-food associations as my service, and food is to just keep me healthy.

So now you tell me this? Now that I've spent 60 years fixated on the wonderfulness of food?



#17 rock

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 07:27 AM

they do say vegetative incarnation, i think they're implying that we should be vegetarians.

Did Jesus eat fish?

If Jesus ate fish, then I don't have strong reasons to reject fish food.

How about you?

#18 ubizmo

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:28 AM

Did Jesus eat fish?


He certainly served fish!

#19 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:31 PM

Did Jesus eat fish?


The last supper, as well as other Passovers, were celebrated without lamb, but Jesus had many times partaken of lamb as a guest. . .

P. 1936 - §3 The apostles knew that Jesus had celebrated other Passovers without the lamb; they knew that he did not personally participate in any sacrificial service of the Jewish system. He had many times partaken of the paschal lamb as a guest, but always, when he was the host, no lamb was served. It would not have been a great surprise to the apostles to have seen the lamb omitted even on Passover night, and since this supper was given one day earlier, they thought nothing of its absence.


My guess is that Jesus ate the normal foods available to the average family of his day and age. He said. . .

P. 1712 - §5 "But hearken to me all of you. It is not that which enters into the mouth that spiritually defiles the man, but rather that which proceeds out of the mouth and from the heart."



All the best,
Meredith

#20 Bonita

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 08:04 AM

Thanks so much for finding that quote about the lamb, Meredith. I looked but couldn't seem to find it.




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