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Approach to the Father Through the Son


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#1 Bonita

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 11:22 AM

This teaching of Jesus is often an area of contention for non-Christians and a belief that has created many a Christian evangelist determined to save souls. I believe we should attempt to understand this very important concept in light of the teachings of the UB.

In an attempt to change my habit of lengthy posts, I'm going to post only one quote at a time with a few words of interpretation. Feel free to comment with your interpretation, but please don't post pages of quotes without also including what those quotes mean to you personally. We all have the Book and access to search engines, so it's not necessary to duplicate what we are all capable of reading on our own. I'm mostly interested in a discussion on the UB teachings of this topic, not just a rereading of the text which we can do quite satisfactorily on our own.

As I see it, the revelators put forth this idea right from the onset. The following quote from the Foreword addresses the fact that our ascension career begins with the discovery and recognition of the divinity of the personality of our Creator Son, Michael of Nebadon/Jesus, and then goes on to take several steps of personality recognition until we are able to recognize the personality of God himself.

0.8.2 This sevenfold Deity personalization in time and space and to the seven superuniverses enables mortal man to attain the presence of God, who is spirit. This sevenfold Deity, to finite time-space creatures sometime power-personalizing in the Supreme Being, is the functional Deity of the mortal evolutionary creatures of the Paradise-ascension career. Such an experiential discovery-career of the realization of God begins with the recognition of the divinity of the Creator son of the local universe and ascends through the superuniverse Ancients of Days and by way of the person of one of the Seven Master Spirits to the attainment of the discovery and recognition of the divine personality of the Universal Father on Paradise.



It seems to me that there is a definite path of personality recognition with resultant personality realization in the design of the ascension career. This path of personality recognition and realization, I believe can be called The Way and begins with the discovery and recognition of Jesus as having a personality with divine origin.

Edited by Bonita, 19 June 2011 - 11:37 AM.


#2 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 01:00 PM

This teaching of Jesus is often an area of contention for non-Christians and a belief that has created many a Christian evangelist determined to save souls. I believe we should attempt to understand this very important concept in light of the teachings of the UB.


Hi Bonita, all,

Here is another view to your topic “The Living Way,” a view from the top.

P.49 - §1 The Universal Father is the only personality in all the universe who does actually know the number of the stars and planets of space. All the worlds of every universe are constantly within the consciousness of God. He also says: "I have surely seen the affliction of my people, I have heard their cry, and I know their sorrows." For "the Lord looks from heaven; he beholds all the sons of men; from the place of his habitation he looks upon all the inhabitants of the earth." Every creature child may truly say: "He knows the way I take, and when he has tried me, I shall come forth as gold." "God knows our downsittings and our uprisings; he understands our thoughts afar off and is acquainted with all our ways." "All things are naked and open to the eyes of him with whom we have to do." And it should be a real comfort to every human being to understand that "he knows your frame; he remembers that you are dust." Jesus, speaking of the living God, said, "Your Father knows what you have need of even before you ask him."


This should be a great comfort to people of every monotheistic faith, whether they are Christian or some other religion. He looks upon all the inhabitants of earth. He sees our affliction, knows our cries, our sorrows. He knows our needs before we ask. He knows our genealogy. I think God is ecumenical in the sense he accepts all inhabitants of planet earth who love and worship him, whether or not they are professed Jesus-lovers. He desires all his creatures to be in personal communication with him and has a place on Paradise for each. He has provided the ways and the means to facilitate the advancement every worthy intelligence to Paradise and to the presence of the Universal Father.

P.63 - §6 The Father desires all his creatures to be in personal communion with him. He has on Paradise a place to receive all those whose survival status and spiritual nature make possible such attainment. Therefore settle in your philosophy now and forever: To each of you and to all of us, God is approachable, the Father is attainable, the way is open; the forces of divine love and the ways and means of divine administration are all interlocked in an effort to facilitate the advancement of every worthy intelligence of every universe to the Paradise presence of the Universal Father.


I think many people love God first, and later find Jesus in their soul. I did. An individual may not learn about our Creator Son until he/she gets to Mansonia.

All the best,
Meredith

Edited by Meredith Van Woert, 19 June 2011 - 01:01 PM.


#3 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 01:10 PM

"This path of personality recognition and realization".

Wow, Bonita that's neat!

The seven dimensional attributes and capacities of that true gift
which our Father bestows--personality--unfolding along the Way.
Capacities as persons to interact ever more deeply with persons.
Our personal capacity to love, and to be loved, ever increasing.

"the unstinted bestowal of love attended by amazing discoveries
of new and greater love to be bestowed." [(1289.2) 117:6.9]

Oh my!
Nigel

#4 Bonita

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 05:02 PM

This should be a great comfort to people of every monotheistic faith, whether they are Christian or some other religion. He looks upon all the inhabitants of earth. He sees our affliction, knows our cries, our sorrows. He knows our needs before we ask. He knows our genealogy. I think God is ecumenical in the sense he accepts all inhabitants of planet earth who love and worship him, whether or not they are professed Jesus-lovers. He desires all his creatures to be in personal communication with him and has a place on Paradise for each. He has provided the ways and the means to facilitate the advancement every worthy intelligence to Paradise and to the presence of the Universal Father.


Yes of course, and not just the monotheistic faiths either. But it is a fact that sooner or later every creature will have to recognize his/her Creator or never leave the local universe on the way to finding the Father. Whether this process begins here on Earth or on the mansion worlds matters not. God honors any flicker of faith, but progress in recognition and realization is required.

There are a few quotes in TUB that suggest that there are more than one path on the way to the Father. I'll provide one such quote in which it states that the bestowal Sons do not actually create these paths or ways, but instead reveal or illuminate them.

p1273:02 When the bestowal Sons reveal new ways for man to find God, they are not creating these paths of divinity attainment; rather are they illuminating the everlasting highways of progression which lead through the presence of the Supreme to the person of the Paradise Father.



Those who choose not to accept Jesus may be on a different highway, but sooner or later, they will face the Supreme on their way to the person of the Father. And, Michael is our revelation of and gateway (door) to the Supreme Being.

119.8.5  The completion of these seven bestowals resulted in the liberation of Michael's supreme sovereignty and also in the creation of the possibility for the sovereignty of the Supreme in Nebadon. On none of Michael’s bestowals did he reveal God the Supreme, but the sum total of all seven bestowals is a new Nebadon revelation of the Supreme Being.

117.6.3  What Michael is to Nebadon, the Supreme is to the finite cosmos; his Deity is the great avenue through which the love of the Father flows outward to all creation, and he is the great avenue through which finite creatures pass inward in their quest of the Father, who is love. Even Thought Adjusters are related to him; in original nature and divinity they are like the Father, but when they experience the transactions of time in the universes of space, they become like the Supreme.



Jesus declared that he is the door, the door through which the aforementioned ways, paths, highways and avenues must pass. He says that whosoever wills may enter, but that only through him, his door, can salvation be found. Other ways, paths, etc., that do not come through that door will fail.

166:3.7 Slowly the apostles and many of the disciples were learning the meaning of Jesus’ early declaration: “Unless you are born again, born of the spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of God.” Nevertheless, to all who are honest of heart and sincere in faith, it remains eternally true: “Behold, I stand at the doors of men’s hearts and knock, and if any man will open to me, I will come in and sup with him and will feed him with the bread of life; we shall be one in spirit and purpose, and so shall we ever be brethren in the long and fruitful service of the search for the Paradise Father.” And so, whether few or many are to be saved altogether depends on whether few or many will heed the invitation: “I am the door, I am the new and living way, and whosoever wills may enter to embark upon the endless truth-search for eternal life.”

165:2.7 And now, lest some of you too easily comprehend this parable, I will declare that I am both the door to the Father’s sheepfold and at the same time the true shepherd of my Father’s flocks. Every shepherd who seeks to enter the fold without me shall fail, and the sheep will not hear his voice. I, with those who minister with me, am the door. Every soul who enters upon the eternal way by the means I have created and ordained shall be saved and will be able to go on to the attainment of the eternal pastures of Paradise.

166:3.3 You also have another saying among you, and one that contains much truth: That the way which leads to eternal life is straight and narrow, that the door which leads thereto is likewise narrow so that, of those who seek salvation, few can find entrance through this door. You also have a teaching that the way which leads to destruction is broad, that the entrance thereto is wide, and that there are many who choose to go this way. And this proverb is not without its meaning. But I declare that salvation is first a matter of your personal choosing. Even if the door to the way of life is narrow, it is wide enough to admit all who sincerely seek to enter, for I am that door. And the Son will never refuse entrance to any child of the universe who, by faith, seeks to find the Father through the Son.



#5 Bonita

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:47 AM

Wow, Bonita that's neat!

The seven dimensional attributes and capacities of that true gift
which our Father bestows--personality--unfolding along the Way.
Capacities as persons to interact ever more deeply with persons.
Our personal capacity to love, and to be loved, ever increasing.


Oh my!
Nigel


Yeah, Wow and Oh my! Personality is definitely part of this approach to the Father. You have pointed out, Nigel, that the personality circuit is the circuit of love. Yet, I believe that the personality circuit is not the Way. The personality circuit is in addition to the Way. At least that is how I am interpreting the next quote:

7.7.4 The Father comes down to you as a personality only through the divine sons of the Eternal son. And you attain the Father by this same living way; you ascend to the Father by the guidance of this group of divine Sons. And this remains true notwithstanding that your very personality is a direct bestowal of the Universal Father.



As I understand it, the personality circuit is a means of personality communication, whereas the Way is a means of personality approach/recognition and realization.

TUB describes the fact that as we undergo the ascension career,we must learn to recognize divine personalities in ascending order before we can recognize God the Father. I believe that is why we will be called ascending Sons; we have inherited the spiritual DNA to make us Sons and we ascend the staircase of personality realization, all the time watered by the love of the Father's personality down stepped for us.

But what is it about personality that makes it recognizable. If we recognize our Creator Son, then we know him, right? Can we be said to have God-consciousness at that point or is it more than God-consciousness. Is it more like having the consciousness of the personality presence of God, and is this the living Way? It seems to me that knowledge of God must mean not only intellectual recognition of his existence, but personality recognition of his existence. And once this happens, it seems to me that you've gone through the "door" that Jesus spoke of, the door of spiritual rebirth, the door he is continually knocking on asking us to open.

I believe that he does more than knock. I think he sometimes calls too. Those who are willing and able to open that door and cross over the threshold know their Master's voice, the voice of the Good Shepherd.

p1818:05 His sheep follow him because they know his voice; they will not follow a stranger. They will flee from the stranger because they know not his voice.



#6 ubizmo

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 09:56 AM

Those who choose not to accept Jesus may be on a different highway, but sooner or later, they will face the Supreme on their way to the person of the Father. And, Michael is our revelation of and gateway (door) to the Supreme Being.


What is the difference between choosing not to accept Jesus and failing to find/recognize him?

#7 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 10:29 AM

P. 42 - §4 Divine truth, final truth, is uniform and universal, but the story of things spiritual, as it is told by numerous individuals hailing from various spheres, may sometimes vary in details owing to this relativity in the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience. While the laws and decrees, the thoughts and attitudes, of the First Great Source and Center are eternally, infinitely, and universally true; at the same time, their application to, and adjustment for, every universe, system, world, and created intelligence, are in accordance with the plans and technique of the Creator Sons as they function in their respective universes, as well as in harmony with the local plans and procedures of the Infinite Spirit and of all other associated celestial personalities.


Hi Bonita, all,

The story of things spiritual vary in details owing to the relativity in “the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience.” We are tadpoles as far as our personal experiences are concerned. A pint cannot hold a quart. In our tadpole phase of existence, we have tons of help via the personalities and circuitries given to assist us in hooking into “The Living Way.”

P.383 - §2 Having started out on the way of life everlasting, having accepted the assignment and received your orders to advance, do not fear the dangers of human forgetfulness and mortal inconstancy, do not be troubled with doubts of failure or by perplexing confusion, do not falter and question your status and standing, for in every dark hour, at every crossroad in the forward struggle, the Spirit of Truth will always speak, saying, "This is the way."



P.596 - §2 The bestowal Son lives and dies for the spiritual uplift of the mortal races of a world. He establishes the "new and living way"; his life is an incarnation of Paradise truth in mortal flesh, that very truth--even the Spirit of Truth--in the knowledge of which men shall be free.




All the best,
Mererdith

#8 Bonita

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 12:20 PM

What is the difference between choosing not to accept Jesus and failing to find/recognize him?


Choosing not to accept Jesus suggests a person has conscious awareness of his existence whereas failure to recognize him means that the person has yet to become conscious of him. I would say that a conscious rejection of Jesus would constitute sin whereas being unconscious of his existence is evil.

But here's the caveat. I believe that many people reject the idea of Jesus that is conjured up in their intellect based upon various cultural and religious beliefs. The problem is that this is not rejection of Jesus himself, it is rejection of the prevalent concept of Jesus, an intellectual idea. You cannot really reject Jesus unless you've met him personally as a personal religious experience. Therefore, one must honestly reflect on whether or not you really know him well enough to reject him. Are you rejecting the teachings and ideas that have grown up about Jesus, or are you rejecting the person named Jesus?

I also believe that there are plenty of people on this earth who recognize and embrace the living Jesus, but know him by a different name, a name more consistent with their socio-religious thought structures. Hope this is making sense.

#9 Bonita

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 01:57 PM

P. 42 - §4 Divine truth, final truth, is uniform and universal, but the story of things spiritual, as it is told by numerous individuals hailing from various spheres, may sometimes vary in details owing to this relativity in the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience. While the laws and decrees, the thoughts and attitudes, of the First Great Source and Center are eternally, infinitely, and universally true; at the same time, their application to, and adjustment for, every universe, system, world, and created intelligence, are in accordance with the plans and technique of the Creator Sons as they function in their respective universes, as well as in harmony with the local plans and procedures of the Infinite Spirit and of all other associated celestial personalities.


Hi Bonita, all,

The story of things spiritual vary in details owing to the relativity in “the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience.” We are tadpoles as far as our personal experiences are concerned. A pint cannot hold a quart. In our tadpole phase of existence, we have tons of help via the personalities and circuitries given to assist us in hooking into “The Living Way.”

P.383 - §2 Having started out on the way of life everlasting, having accepted the assignment and received your orders to advance, do not fear the dangers of human forgetfulness and mortal inconstancy, do not be troubled with doubts of failure or by perplexing confusion, do not falter and question your status and standing, for in every dark hour, at every crossroad in the forward struggle, the Spirit of Truth will always speak, saying, "This is the way."


P.596 - §2 The bestowal Son lives and dies for the spiritual uplift of the mortal races of a world. He establishes the "new and living way"; his life is an incarnation of Paradise truth in mortal flesh, that very truth--even the Spirit of Truth--in the knowledge of which men shall be free.


First of all, the relativity of truth has little to do with the Way of living Truth except for individual spiritual diversity in the comprehension and expression of personal religious experience. The approach to the Father remains the same despite the fact that it is individualized. It is comprehensive in that it is wide enough to include everyone from frog egg to fully grown frog. It's one of those paradoxes that TUB frequently refers to. But look at the first quotation you offered.

It is referring to all things spiritual as they are experienced on the "various spheres" and it goes on to say that applied truth on those spheres is in accordance with the plans of the local Creator Son. It is saying that all things spiritual, even though they are relative, still must be in accordance with the plans and techniques of the Creator Son. Here again, we must go through the Son to get to the Father. Consider the following quote:

21:5.4    The elevation of a sevenfold bestowal Son to the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe means the beginning of the end of agelong uncertainty and relative confusion. Subsequent to this event, that which cannot be sometime spiritualized will eventually be disorganized; that which cannot be sometime co-ordinated with cosmic reality will eventually be destroyed. When the provisions of endless mercy and nameless patience have been exhausted in an effort to win the loyalty and devotion of the will creatures of the realms, justice and righteousness will prevail. That which mercy cannot rehabilitate justice will eventually annihilate.



Since Michael's elevation to Sovereign Son, Master Michael, everything in his universe will be spiritualized or destroyed. There seems to be no way around the fact that either a person is loyal to Jesus/Michael or he/she no longer exists. Of course, plenty of mercy credits are given in order to ensure that this does not happen, but it can if one should so choose.

Now look at your second quote. It says, " . . . having accepted the assignment and received your orders to advance." This clearly means that one has accepted the living Way and is conscious of one's orders, meaning direction and guidance. This is a quote for someone already within the kingdom, someone who has already heard the knock at the door, the Master's voice calling, and has willingly opened it and walked through.

#10 Alina

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 02:18 PM

Hi!
Another perception:

Symmetry is balance, harmony. hugs and elliptical symmetry. There are not parallel ideas. The unit is circular, or better, spherical, would be to embrace the content of a concept in all its scope "Philosophy dare not project its interpretations of reality in the linear fashion of logic; it must never fail to reckon with the elliptic symmetry of reality and with the essential curvature of all relation concepts.(103:6.14)",
And,"The highest attainable philosophy of mortal man must be logically based on the reason of science, the faith of religion, and the truth insight afforded by revelation. By this union man can compensate somewhat for his failure to develop an adequate metaphysics and for his inability to comprehend the mota of the morontia.(103:6.15) "

I think we have the possibility of understanding about the scope of such a unification in the teachings of Jesus.
We can glimpse flashes of intelligence and try to unification.
But this is personal experience according to their level of development in all areas.
A Good example in the paragraph that I copy below;

100:7.1 Although the average mortal of Urantia cannot hope to attain the high perfection of character which Jesus of Nazareth acquired while sojourning in the flesh, it is altogether possible for every mortal believer to develop a strong and unified personality along the perfected lines of the Jesus personality. The unique feature of the Master's personality was not so much its perfection as its symmetry, its exquisite and balanced unification. The most effective presentation of Jesus consists in following the example of the one who said, as he gestured toward the Master standing before his accusers, " Behold the man!

Edited by Alina, 20 June 2011 - 02:35 PM.


#11 ubizmo

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 06:50 PM

Choosing not to accept Jesus suggests a person has conscious awareness of his existence whereas failure to recognize him means that the person has yet to become conscious of him. I would say that a conscious rejection of Jesus would constitute sin whereas being unconscious of his existence is evil.

But here's the caveat. I believe that many people reject the idea of Jesus that is conjured up in their intellect based upon various cultural and religious beliefs. The problem is that this is not rejection of Jesus himself, it is rejection of the prevalent concept of Jesus, an intellectual idea. You cannot really reject Jesus unless you've met him personally as a personal religious experience. Therefore, one must honestly reflect on whether or not you really know him well enough to reject him. Are you rejecting the teachings and ideas that have grown up about Jesus, or are you rejecting the person named Jesus?

I also believe that there are plenty of people on this earth who recognize and embrace the living Jesus, but know him by a different name, a name more consistent with their socio-religious thought structures. Hope this is making sense.


After a lifetime of reading, hearing , and thinking about Jesus, I think I have a "feel" for his personality. I have a kind of mental model of Jesus, a sense of what he was like. I think there are many like me. Of course, I have a similar "feel" for the personality of Socrates, and Huckleberry Finn, who had the misfortune of never existing. I'm pretty sure this doesn't count as knowing Jesus.
I don't reject what I understand of his teachings. I'm sure there's more that I don't understand than what I do.

#12 Bonita

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:53 AM

After a lifetime of reading, hearing , and thinking about Jesus, I think I have a "feel" for his personality. I have a kind of mental model of Jesus, a sense of what he was like. I think there are many like me. Of course, I have a similar "feel" for the personality of Socrates, and Huckleberry Finn, who had the misfortune of never existing. I'm pretty sure this doesn't count as knowing Jesus.
I don't reject what I understand of his teachings. I'm sure there's more that I don't understand than what I do.


I think most of the world is like you Todd. You have a sense of what he was like rather than a sense of the way he is. It's like having a father who died before you were born and the only way you get to know him is through the stories other people tell. Those stories can never take the place of actually meeting your Dad in person and spending time with him though. It's the same way with Jesus.

I don't think that many people believe that they can actually meet and spend time with Jesus, and most people think that those who claim that they do, are a little more than loopy. In fact, I know a few people who think it's downright childish too. For most people Jesus is a dead man who lived two thousand years ago, who left behind some great stories that occasionally inspire them.

It's not necessary to have a Damascus Road incident where you actually see and hear Jesus as part of a divine vision. The Spirit of Truth is Jesus, who comes as a Teacher, a Comforter and a Guide through life. He's very, very real and quite knowable. He even said he would come in and sup with you if you would only open the door and let him in. To me that is more than a metaphor; it is a reality. It's not stories about Jesus that inspire me, it's Jesus himself.

Moreover, without this close connection to him and communication with him, I don't think it is possible to live a truly righteous, spirit saturated life. The following explanation from Jesus himself is the best description of the living Way, the approach to the Father through the Son, that exists in print.

You must abide in me, and I in you; the branch will die if it is separated from the vine. As the branch cannot bear fruit except it abides in the vine, so neither can you yield the fruits of loving service except you abide in me. Remember: I am the real vine, and you are the living branches. He who lives in me, and I in him, will bear much fruit of the spirit and experience the supreme joy of yielding this spiritual harvest. If you will maintain this living spiritual connection with me, you will bear abundant fruit. If you abide in me and my words live in you, you will be able to commune freely with me, and then can my living spirit so infuse you that you may ask whatsoever my spirit wills and do all this with the assurance that the Father will grant us our petition. Herein is the Father glorified: that the vine has many living branches, and that every branch bears much fruit. And when the world sees these fruit-bearing branches--my friends who love one another, even as I have loved them--all men will know that you are truly my disciples. p1945:04



#13 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 10:01 AM

Good Morning Readers,

Here is a reminder about these matters from the bottom up. Said Jesus:


P. 1815 - §3 The teacher of truth attracts only those who hunger for the truth and who thirst for righteousness.



P. 2054 - §3The bread of life and the water thereof are given only to those who hunger for truth and thirst for righteousness--for God.



Gotta have the hunger and the thirst first. Gotta experience spiritual poverty first, sooner or later, in one's approach to God to start out on the "The Living Way."

P. 1095 - §5 Spiritual progress is predicated on intellectual recognition of spiritual poverty coupled with the self-consciousness of perfection-hunger, the desire to know God and be like him, the wholehearted purpose to do the will of the Father in heaven.


Starts in the mind.

P. 1733 - §1 While the mind is not the seat of the spiritual nature, it is indeed the gateway thereto.


Have a great day,
Meredith

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 10:47 AM


This is just my opinion on, when opposition of opposite personalities need to complement each other on terminology. This is not meant for criticism; I just can't help taking advantage of a good thing in the works here.

The following is how I might read into the italic quote, or just a different way of thinking or saying the same thing diversely.


"Choosing not to accept Jesus suggests a person has conscious awareness of his existence whereas failure to recognize him means that the person has yet to become conscious of him. I would say that a conscious rejection of Jesus would constitute sin whereas being unconscious of his existence is evil."



Choosing not to recognize Jesus, suggests a person has sub- or un-conscious awareness of his existence. Failure in recognizing him means that the person yet has to become conscious in truth. I would say that a constant rejection of Jesus' teachings would constitute diverse indifference, wherein being unconscious of an existence of a higher power within.


"But here's the caveat. I believe that many people reject the idea of Jesus that is conjured up in their intellect based upon various cultural and religious beliefs. The problem is that this is not rejection of Jesus himself, it is rejection of the prevalent concept of Jesus, an intellectual idea. You cannot really reject Jesus unless you've met him personally as a personal religious experience. Therefore, one must honestly reflect on whether or not you really know him well enough to reject him. Are you rejecting the teachings and ideas that have grown up about Jesus, or are you rejecting the person named Jesus?"



But there's a caveat. I believe that many people reject the ideals of Jesus; conjured up by their intellect based on their various cultural and or religious teaching. This is not rejection of Jesus himself, it is rejection of the prevalent concept of Gods' ideas, on intellectual ideals. You cannot really reject Jesus unless you have a meeting of the mind in his personality as a personal experience. Therefore, one must be honest in reflecting on whether or not you really know him well enough to accept or reject his teaching. Are you rejecting the teaching or ideas that have grown up around Jesus, or are you rejecting the person named Jesus? Either way the Caveat is God.


"I also believe that there are plenty of people on this earth who recognize and embrace the living Jesus, but know him by a different name, a name more consistent with their socio-religious thought structures. Hope this is making sense."



I also believe that there are plenty of people on this earth who recognize and embrace God, but know him by a different name, a name more consistent with their socio-religious thought.

Hope this makes more sense.
Maybe not, who knows?


#15 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 02:37 PM

Here's another view from the top (in “Approach to the Father Through the Son”). We’re informed:

P. 1468 - §3 There are only two groups of mortals in the eyes of God: those who desire to do his will and those who do not. As the universe looks upon an inhabited world, it likewise discerns two great classes: those who know God and those who do not.


From the bottom where we live right here on planet earth:

P.1271 - §0 Mind is the flexible reality which creatures and Creators can so readily manipulate; it is the vital link connecting matter and spirit.


Remember “The Mind Arena of Choice”? It is by mind that you live or die.

P. 1216 - §5 Material evolution has provided you a life machine, your body; the Father himself has endowed you with the purest spirit reality known in the universe, your Thought Adjuster. But into your hands, subject to your own decisions, has been given mind, and it is by mind that you live or die. It is within this mind and with this mind that you make those moral decisions which enable you to achieve Adjusterlikeness, and that is Godlikeness.


And you can read more about this in PAPER 111. While the source of mind is divine, mind as we know it can hardly become the object of great admiration, much less of adoration or worship.

P. 103 - §5 Too often, all too often, you mar your minds by insincerity and sear them with unrighteousness; you subject them to animal fear and distort them by useless anxiety. Therefore, though the source of mind is divine, mind as you know it on your world of ascension can hardly become the object of great admiration, much less of adoration or worship. The contemplation of the immature and inactive human intellect should lead only to reactions of humility.


P. 1733 - §1While the mind is not the seat of the spiritual nature, it is indeed the gateway thereto.


It's the gateway to "The Living Way."


All the best,
Meredith

#16 Bonita

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 01:28 PM

The next quote I want to look at is the following:

5:3.6 The Creator or Sovereign Sons who preside over the destinies of the local universes stand in the place of both the Universal Father and the Eternal Son of Paradise. These Universe Sons receive, in the name of the Father, the adoration of worship and give ear to the pleas of their petitioning subjects throughout their respective creations. To the children of a local universe a Michael Son is, to all practical intents and purposes, God. He is the local universe personification of the Universal Father and the Eternal Son. The Infinite Spirit maintains personal contact with the children of these realms through the Universe Spirits, the administrative and creative associates of the Paradise Creator Sons.



Even worship goes through the Son, which reminds me of something that Jesus taught his apostles:

p1641:01 We worship God by the aid of the Father's indwelling spirit and by the illumination of the human mind through the ministry of truth. Worship, taught Jesus, makes one increasingly like the being who is worshiped. Worship is a transforming experience whereby the finite gradually approaches and ultimately attains the presence of the Infinite.



According to the quote, in the human mind, worship involves the Spirit of Truth ("ministry of truth") which is the Spirit of the Father and the Son. If the approach to the Father involves personality recognition and realization and, if one must become increasingly like the one being worshipped, then it is only fitting that we would need to approach the worship of the Father's personality through the Son's, which is the Father's personality revealed to us.

The following two quotes explain that worship utilizes the personality circuit of the Universal Father.

5:3.2 Supplications of all kinds belong to the realm of the Eternal Son and the Son’s spiritual organization. Prayers, all formal communications, everything except adoration and worship of the Universal Father, are matters that concern a local universe; they do not ordinarily proceed out of the realm of the jurisdiction of a Creator Son. But worship is undoubtedly encircuited and dispatched to the person of the Creator by the function of the Father’s personality circuit. We further believe that such registry of the homage of an Adjuster-indwelt creature is facilitated by the Father’s spirit presence. There exists a tremendous amount of evidence to substantiate such a belief, and I know that all orders of Father fragments are empowered to register the bona fide adoration of their subjects acceptably in the presence of the Universal Father. The Adjusters undoubtedly also utilize direct prepersonal channels of communication with God, and they are likewise able to utilize the spirit-gravity circuits of the Eternal Son.

5:6.11 As all gravity is circuited in the Isle of Paradise, as all mind is circuited in the Conjoint Actor and all spirit in the Eternal Son, so is all personality circuited in the personal presence of the Universal Father, and this circuit unerringly transmits the worship of all personalities to the Original and Eternal Personality.



#17 Bonita

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 10:22 AM

In the following quote, it is explained why the approach to the Father is through the Son. The Son amplifies the character and personality of the Father because he has been divested of the nonpersonal and nonspiritual attributes which personal beings have difficulty making contact with.(113:3.1) Of course, this quote is referring to the Eternal Son, but it includes the Sons of the Eternal Sons, as evidenced in the quote which follows this one.

7:7.2 The character of God could not possibly be intrinsically improved upon in the person of the Son, for the divine Father is infinitely perfect, but that character and personality are amplified, by divestment of the nonpersonal and nonspiritual, for revelation to creature beings. The First Source and Center is much more than a personality, but all of the spirit qualities of the father personality of the First Source and Center are spiritually present in the absolute personality of the Eternal Son.



In this next quote, it says that the Eternal Son and his Sons not only reveal the personal nature of the Father to us, but also the avenue of approach to him which are the same. The revelation of the spiritual nature of the Father's personality is the approach to the Father.

7:7.3 The primal Son and his Sons are engaged in making a universal revelation of the spiritual and personal nature of the Father to all creation. In the central universe, the superuniverses, the local universes, or on the inhabited planets, it is a Paradise Son who reveals the Universal Father to men and angels. The Eternal Son and his Sons reveal the avenue of creature approach to the Universal Father. And even we of high origin understand the Father much more fully as we study the revelation of his character and personality in the Eternal Son and in the Sons of the Eternal Son.



And finally we are told again that the method by which the Father reveals his personality to us is the very same method by which we approach the Father. It's the same set of stairs, and as Alina pointed out, it is the symmetry, the elliptical, circular or spiral trajectory of that staircase through the phenomenon called "experience" that allows us to make the climb or ascent.

7:7.4 The Father comes down to you as a personality only through the divine Sons of the Eternal Son. And you attain the Father by this same living way; you ascend to the Father by the guidance of this group of divine Sons. And this remains true notwithstanding that your very personality is a direct bestowal of the Universal Father.



The fact that we have a personality directly descendent from and bestowed by the Father does not guarantee that we will embark upon that staircase. Nor does this fact determine whether we climb with great effort or ascend with relative ease. We still have to pass through the doorway to the staircase; we can't expect to get up to the higher rooms by spending all our time standing around in the foyer waiting, or worse yet, playing around outside, and expecting to be airlifted up upon death. The mind/soul must desire and the personality must choose to act. The above quote says that we ascend by accepting guidance from our Creator Son, who is now a Sovereign Son and Master Michael, which means he guides us with his Spirit of Truth.

The bestowal of the Spirit of Truth within the human mind is unerringly responsive to truth--the living spirit relationship of all things and all beings as they are coordinated in the eternal ascent Godward. (p647:4 56:10.13) However, the Spirit of Truth is almost wholly limited in function and power by man's personal reception of that which constitutes the sum and substance of the mission of Jesus while he walked this earth. (p379:5 34:5.5) TUB does not say that such guidance is limited to those who accept Church teachings about Jesus, but to those who accept Jesus the person and his mission of revealing the Father's replete and perfect personality.

#18 Bonita

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 05:39 PM

This next quote explains why we must approach the Father through the Son. It is not possible to attain to spirit leve without the aid of the pattern of all personalities:

105.3.3 2. The Second Source and Center. Second Person of Deity, the Eternal and Original son; the absolute personality realities of the I AM and the basis for the realization-revelation of “I AM personality.” No personality can hope to attain the Universal father except through his Eternal son; neither can personality attain to spirit levels of existence apart from the action and aid of this absolute pattern for all personalities. In the Second Source and Center spirit is unqualified while personality is absolute.



The Eternal Son is the absolute pattern for all personalities. And the Creator Sons are the pattern for all local universe personality.

1:5.6 The natures of the Paradise Creator Sons do not encompass all the unqualified potentials of the universal absoluteness of the infinite nature of the First Great Source and Center, but the Universal Father is in every way divinely present in the Creator Sons. The Father and his Sons are one. These Paradise Sons of the order of Michael are perfect personalities, even the pattern for all local universe personality from that of the Bright and Morning Star down to the lowest human creature of progressing animal evolution.



Pattern discloses the individual aspect of personality.

0:6.12 In contrast to the aspect of the total, pattern discloses the individual aspect of energy and of personality.



It makes sense to me that we must first recognize and realize the individual aspect of personality before we recognize and realize the absolute ancestor-source of personality.

0:6.13 Pattern is a master design from which copies are made. Eternal Paradise is the absolute of patterns; the Eternal Son is the pattern personality; the Universal Father is the direct ancestor-source of both.



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Posted 27 June 2011 - 05:11 PM

6:1.5 On your world, but not in your system of inhabited spheres, this Original Son has been confused with a co-ordinate Creator Son, Michael of Nebadon, who bestowed himself upon the mortal races of Urantia.

this is very liberating sentence to me when i first read it. jesus knew the people of his age and generation were too young to try for him to teach about the trinity aside from himself so he allowed himself to be thought of as the second person of trinity. it gives credence to the muslim religion that jesus is a prophet and not part of the trinity. none of the main conventional religions are fully in error. but he was also right when he said every one has to meet him and pass by him on salvington before they get to meet the universal father. and a creator son who can say "he who has seen me has seen the father" is only said on one sphere, this one.

#20 Bonita

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 09:07 AM

In an earlier post Meredith implied a connection between the living God and the living Way. In this next quote Jesus defines the living God.

149.6.3 “The ‘fear of the Lord’ has had different meanings in the successive ages, coming up from fear, through anguish and dread, to awe and reverence. And now from reverence I would lead you up, through recognition, realization, and appreciation, to love. When man recognizes only the works of God, he is led to fear the Supreme; but when man begins to understand and experience the personality and character of the living God, he is led increasingly to love such a good and perfect, universal and eternal Father. And it is just this changing of the relation of man to God that constitutes the mission of the Son of Man on earth.



The living God requires recognition, realization and appreciation of the personality of the Father which we can only accomplish by knowing the combined nature of the Son. There is another quote that mentions the mission of the Son of Man on earth and that one has to do with the Spirit of Truth and his ability to function as the living God.

p379:05Though the Spirit of Truth is poured out upon all flesh, this spirit of the Son is almost wholly limited in function and power by man's personal reception of that which constitutes the sum and substance of the mission of the bestowal Son.



In other words, in order for the Spirit of Truth to guide a person in the living Way, that person must be receptive to the experience of the personality and character of the living God through the bestowal Son. We do this through recognition, realization and appreciation, especially appreciation; and, we appreciate by loving back.

Note in the following quote that it says Jesus loves, meaning at the present time. The quote is not talking about the historical Jesus and what he did two thousand years ago; it's talking about Jesus today as the Spirit of Truth. When love is awakened in the human heart, it is stirred to appreciation, to give love in return. The Spirit of Truth directs the loving contact between all persons, so loving him in return means that you willingly allow yourself to be directed to love other persons as a direct fruit of that love. And, as far as I understand it, this is the living Way.

p2018:1 188:5.2 Jesus loves men so much that his love awakens the response of love in the human heart. Love is truly contagious and eternally creative.

180:2.2 "As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Live in my love even as I live in the Father's love. If you do as I have taught you, you shall abide in my love even as I have kept the Father's word and evermore abide in his love."



The living Way is a life of loyal and living service, of loving as you are loved. We learn to be loyal in service before we really learn to love.

p1096:6  100:3.1  Religion is not a technique for attaining a static and blissful peace of mind; it is an impulse for organizing the soul for dynamic service. It is the enlistment of the totality of selfhood in the loyal service of loving God and serving man. Religion pays any price essential to the attainment of the supreme goal, the eternal prize. There is a consecrated completeness in religious loyalty which is superbly sublime. And these loyalties are socially effective and spiritually progressive.

39:4.11 What is loyalty? It is the fruit of an intelligent appreciation of universe brotherhood; one could not take so much and give nothing. As you ascend the personality scale, first you learn to be loyal, then to love, then to be filial, and then may you be free; but not until you are a finaliter, not until you have attained perfection of loyalty, can you self-realize finality of liberty.






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