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Outisde Reading: Eugenics


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#41 Guest_rich_*

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 07:12 AM

51:4.8 These six evolutionary races are destined to be blended and exalted by amalgamation with the progeny of the Adamic uplifters. But before these peoples are blended, the inferior and unfit are largely eliminated. The Planetary Prince and the Material Son, with other suitable planetary authorities, pass upon the fitness of the reproducing strains. The difficulty of executing such a radical program on Urantia consists in the absence of competent judges to pass upon the biologic fitness or unfitness of the individuals of your world races. Notwithstanding this obstacle, it seems that you ought to be able to agree upon the biologic disfellowshiping of your more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks.

here's a list of the eugenics quotes, this is love as god defines it.

52:2.9 The races are purified and brought up to a high state of physical perfection and intellectual strength before the end of this era. The early development of a normal world is greatly helped by the plan of promoting the increase of the higher types of mortals with proportionate curtailment of the lower. And it is the failure of your early peoples to thus discriminate between these types that accounts for the presence of so many defective and degenerate individuals among the present-day Urantia races.

52:2.12 It is neither tenderness nor altruism to bestow futile sympathy upon degenerated human beings, unsalvable abnormal and inferior mortals. There exist on even the most normal of the evolutionary worlds sufficient differences between individuals and between numerous social groups to provide for the full exercise of all those noble traits of altruistic sentiment and unselfish mortal ministry without perpetuating the socially unfit and the morally degenerate strains of evolving humanity. There is abundant opportunity for the exercise of tolerance and the function of altruism in behalf of those unfortunate and needy individuals who have not irretrievably lost their moral heritage and forever destroyed their spiritual birthright.

70:9.14 What may be regarded as right in one age may not be so regarded in another. The survival of large numbers of defectives and degenerates is not because they have any natural right thus to encumber twentieth-century civilization, but simply because the society of the age, the mores, thus decrees.

71:3.8 No society has progressed very far when it permits idleness or tolerates poverty. But poverty and dependence can never be eliminated if the defective and degenerate stocks are freely supported and permitted to reproduce without restraint.

72:5.2 Social antagonisms are lessening, and good will is growing apace. No grave economic problems have arisen out of the abolition of slavery (over one hundred years ago) since this adjustment was effected gradually by the liberation of two per cent each year. Those slaves who satisfactorily passed mental, moral, and physical tests were granted citizenship; many of these superior slaves were war captives or children of such captives. Some fifty years ago they deported the last of their inferior slaves, and still more recently they are addressing themselves to the task of reducing the numbers of their degenerate and vicious classes.

82:6.3 Present-day prejudice against “half-castes,” “hybrids,” and “mongrels” arises because modern racial crossbreeding is, for the greater part, between the grossly inferior strains of the races concerned. You also get unsatisfactory offspring when the degenerate strains of the same race intermarry.

82:6.7 As long as present-day races are so overloaded with inferior and degenerate strains, race intermingling on a large scale would be most detrimental, but most of the objections to such experiments rest on social and cultural prejudices rather than on biological considerations. Even among inferior stocks, hybrids often are an improvement on their ancestors. Hybridization makes for species improvement because of the role of the dominant genes. Racial intermixture increases the likelihood of a larger number of the desirable dominants being present in the hybrid.

82:6.11 After all, the real jeopardy of the human species is to be found in the unrestrained multiplication of the inferior and degenerate strains of the various civilized peoples rather than in any supposed danger of their racial interbreeding.

99:3.5 The church, because of overmuch false sentiment, has long ministered to the underprivileged and the unfortunate, and this has all been well, but this same sentiment has led to the unwise perpetuation of racially degenerate stocks which have tremendously retarded the progress of civilization.

#42 FTFSGRL

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 11:44 PM

If one pays attention to the state of the world, one would already realize that those people in power and wealth have already started the process long ago.

Eugenics is not love, it is selfishness.(human selfishness)

:)

Edited by FTFSGRL, 10 July 2011 - 11:50 PM.


#43 Guest_rich_*

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 10:38 AM

okay let's not use a word to describe it, but what do you think about what the melchizedeks would do on a world as they say in their quotes? are you in agreement or disagreement with them?

If one pays attention to the state of the world, one would already realize that those people in power and wealth have already started the process long ago.

Eugenics is not love, it is selfishness.(human selfishness)

:)



#44 FTFSGRL

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 02:52 PM

The proof, therefore, of your fellowship with the Spirit of Truth is not to be found in your consciousness of this spirit but rather in your experience of enhanced fellowship with Michael.

(2061.3) 194:2.5 The spirit also came to help men recall and understand the words of the Master as well as to illuminate and reinterpret his life on earth.

(2061.4) 194:2.6 Next, the Spirit of Truth came to help the believer to witness to the realities of Jesus’ teachings and his life as he lived it in the flesh, and as he now again lives it anew and afresh in the individual believer of each passing generation of the spirit-filled sons of God.

(2061.5) 194:2.7 Thus it appears that the Spirit of Truth comes really to lead all believers into all truth, into the expanding knowledge of the experience of the living and growing spiritual consciousness of the reality of eternal and ascending sonship with God.

#45 Guest_rich_*

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 12:06 PM

all you need is love - the beatles.

#46 rock

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 02:00 PM

Eugenics is not love, it is selfishness.(human selfishness)

No it is not selfishness. You cannot help or improve yourself with eugenics.

Love is a desire to do good unto others. Therefore eugenics is an example of love.

"Though no agreement could be reached as to absolute morality, the essentials of eugenics may be easily defined. All creatures would agree that it was better to be healthy than sick, vigorous than weak, well-fitted than ill-fitted for their part in life; in short, that it was better to be good rather than bad specimens of their kind, whatever that kind might be. So with men."
http://www.galton.or...-scope-aims.htm

It is all about care of future generations.

#47 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 02:59 PM

Hi rock,

Love is a desire to do good unto others. Therefore eugenics is an example of love.
[...] It is all about care of future generations.

You got me started on a whole new train of thought: as used in
these papers, eugenics becomes simply a gift to the future of
Michael's personally adjusted (no favouritism implied) planet.
An almost utterly altruistic gesture? Nice thought!

Nigel

#48 Guest_rich_*

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 03:20 PM

82:6.11 After all, the real jeopardy of the human species is to be found in the unrestrained multiplication of the inferior and degenerate strains of the various civilized peoples rather than in any supposed danger of their racial interbreeding.

sounds right to me.

No it is not selfishness. You cannot help or improve yourself with eugenics.

Love is a desire to do good unto others. Therefore eugenics is an example of love.



#49 FTFSGRL

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 07:20 AM

If one pays attention to the state of the world, one would already realize that those people in power and wealth have already started the process long ago.

Eugenics is not love, it is selfishness.(human selfishness)

:)



No it is not selfishness. You cannot help or improve yourself with eugenics.

Love is a desire to do good unto others. Therefore eugenics is an example of love.

"Though no agreement could be reached as to absolute morality, the essentials of eugenics may be easily defined. All creatures would agree that it was better to be healthy than sick, vigorous than weak, well-fitted than ill-fitted for their part in life; in short, that it was better to be good rather than bad specimens of their kind, whatever that kind might be. So with men."
http://www.galton.or...-scope-aims.htm

It is all about care of future generations.


Selfishness is a characteristic of those that have not found God, who are ignorant and live in darkness. Now, with the state of the world, with eugenics initiated long ago, these people in positions of power and wealth obviously are selfish. It matters not what happens to this physical "realm", therefore.... it is the selfishness of this present generation wanting to "preserve
" the future generation and the best way they know how is eugenics. :) PHYSICAL survival

Edited by FTFSGRL, 15 July 2011 - 08:41 AM.


#50 Bonita

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 08:17 AM

. . . the people in positions of power and wealth obviously are selfish.


Whoooa there Bronco! Them's fightin' words. Not all folks with power and wealth are selfish. Maybe you want to renegotiate that line of thinking just a little?

You see, as I tried to explain to Rick, this line of thinking originates with guilt over having what others have not. Guilt turns to fear, fear turns to suspicion, suspicion turns to anger and anger turns to war. We call this war "class warfare," and this war has to stop. It is an evil self righteous war.

Jesus explained that there is nothing wrong with wealth and power provided it is not put into a position of worship. Jesus relied on people with money and power; his entire mission depended upon the gifts of the wealthy in both cash and hospitality. It is wrong to vilify wealth and power. It is right to warn of the dangers of misspent allegiance to wealth and power; but to accuse all persons with wealth and power of sinning against God is a sin in and of itself. I think there is a mote in an eye somewhere.

#51 FTFSGRL

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 08:40 AM

Read it again Bonita.

Selfishness is a characteristic of those that have not found God, who are ignorant and live in darkness. Now, with the state of the world, with eugenics initiated long ago, the people in positions of power and wealth obviously are selfish. It matters not what happens to this physical "realm", therefore.... it is the selfishness of this present generation wanting to "preserve
" the future generation and the best way they know how is eugenics. :) PHYSICAL survival


I said for those that have not found God....

Although I will change "the people" into "these people", just to ensure clarity of speech. :)

#52 Rick Warren

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 08:55 AM

Not wishing to put a damper on the passion in the discussion developing here, but as admin I must suggest a review of Forum rule two before proceeding:

2. Personal attacks. Attacks upon the character, personality, heritage, beliefs, motives, or actions of any persons are unacceptable.



Thanks for observing it members. Fraternally, Rick

#53 Bonita

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 09:28 AM

Rick, where's the personal attack? We're talking about theories here, theories that have the potential for dangerous consequences. I think you're reading something into this that doesn't exist. There is no attack on any one's personality here, just a suggestion that a person's idea does not fit with the teachings of the Revelation.

Selfishness is an act of disloyalty to God. I think suggesting that an entire class of people are being disloyal to God has the potential for dangerous consequences as well as being short-sighted. Furthermore, not all people who are ignorant and live in darkness are selfish; similarly, not all selfish people are ignorant and live in darkness, some are that way consciously. Likewise, there are billions of selfish people who are poor and powerless, just as there are nearly that many selfish people who also claim to worship God. I think the entire premise made by FTSGRL is faulty and needs renegotiation. I also don't think that it has anything whatsoever to do with eugenics.

FTSGRL, if this is a "belief" of yours that has become a religion, then I will have to retract my statement according to the board rules. Is this a creedal belief of yours? I know that there is a cultural group in this world that has made it a creedal belief as though it were a religion. Are you a member of that group, in which case I will apologize for offending your religion.

#54 Rick Warren

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 10:00 AM

This is where a flag first went up. I feared it might degrade from there. If not, good!!

QUOTE (FTFSGRL @ Jul 15 2011, 08:20 AM)...the people in positions of power and wealth obviously are selfish.



#55 FTFSGRL

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 10:15 AM

"The Revelation" from any book is not consistent in its entirety with the teachings of the spirit.

Will eugenics matter if we are no longer here?

It is that of an earthly matter, temporal.

Instead of God wanting us to continue, maybe he wants to be with His children. Maybe His ultimate love is calling His children to Him. Physical human extinction.


I AM my own religion. :)

#56 Bonita

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 10:42 AM

Here's the deal:

The question of eugenics has nothing to do with selfishness. The question is: Does mankind have the right to influence evolution? The Revelation has given us an answer. We can do nothing to alter the process of evolution itself, but we can influence its direction. That was part of the mission of the Prince's staff and of Adam and Eve. Up until the appearance of mankind, evolution was under the direction of the Life Carriers; now, without the leadership of the Prince's staff and Adam and Eve, it is left to us. What we do with it and how we do it is what matters. The higher-ups have their hands tied; we have to solve this problem ourselves.

65:1.7 After the life patterns have been formulated and the material organizations have been duly completed, the supermaterial forces concerned in life propagation become forthwith active, and life is existent. Whereupon the Life Carriers are immediately returned to their normal mid-phase of personality existence, in which estate they can manipulate the living units and maneuver the evolving organisms, even though they are shorn of all ability to organize—create—new patterns of living matter.

65:1.8 After organic evolution has run a certain course and free will of the human type has appeared in the highest evolving organisms, the Life Carriers must either leave the planet or take renunciation vows; that is, they must pledge themselves to refrain from all attempts further to influence the course of organic evolution.



And here is where we meet the brick wall. It all comes down to an issue of morality. Given the history of the last century, eugenics has been deemed to be morally wrong, however we continue to mess with evolution every day and call it something other than eugenics. (How many babies are murdered everyday on this planet, born and unborn? . . . Rick you can strike this statement if you like.)

Morality changes with the culture. At one time it was morally right to eat the dead and sacrifice the first-born. The morality of 20th Century eugenics has the same distaste because mankind is morally progressing. But we have to be honest with ourselves; we choose to influence evolution all the time. What we need is an intelligent, honest and enlightened way of looking at what we are already doing in a haphazard and unenlightened way. But, very few have the courage to address it at face value.

And NO God does not want physical extinction. That's what people want because they don't have the courage to deal with the physical world and the people in it. It's the ultimate escapist, indolent, lilly-livered, theory out there. Poppycock! If the world becomes extinct, we will all continue our evolution on another planet, just as it is today. There is no escape. We have to deal with evolution. We're stuck with it.

p582:3 51:2.3 While there is this dematerializing technique for preparing the Adams for transit from Jerusem to the evolutionary worlds, there is no equivalent method for taking them away from such worlds unless the entire planet is to be emptied, in which event emergency installation of the dematerialization technique is made for the entire salvable population. If some physical catastrophe should doom the planetary residence of an evolving race, the Melchizedeks and the Life Carriers would install the technique of dematerialization for all survivors, and by seraphic transport these beings would be carried away to the new world prepared for their continuing existence. The evolution of a human race, once initiated on a world of space, must proceed quite independently of the physical survival of that planet, but during the evolutionary ages it is not otherwise intended that a Planetary Adam or Eve shall leave their chosen world.



#57 FTFSGRL

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 11:53 AM

Yeahhhhh, like I said.... "PHYSICAL" human extinction.... another planet???? Take material out of the equation therefore there is no other physical "planet".

Secondly, "that's what people want because they don't have the courage to deal with the physical world and the people in it"

Prove it. Until you ARE them, you cannot, absolutely CANNOT make this statement. You are not these personalities to experience what they have experienced, nor perceive how they perceive, interpret how they interpret, understand how they understand etc. and most importantly have no idea their communion with Father.

#58 rock

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 01:09 PM

Selfishness is a characteristic of those that have not found God, who are ignorant and live in darkness.

I would call that a premise.

Now, with the state of the world, with eugenics initiated long ago, these people in positions of power and wealth obviously are selfish.

That looks like an association.

It matters not what happens to this physical "realm", therefore.... it is the selfishness of this present generation wanting to "preserve
" the future generation and the best way they know how is eugenics. :) PHYSICAL survival

A potentially true premise developed with problematic logic lead to a problematic conclusion.

Do you see a problem there?

#59 Bonita

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 04:37 PM

Yeahhhhh, like I said.... "PHYSICAL" human extinction.... another planet???? Take material out of the equation therefore there is no other physical "planet".


Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about. The evolution of the human race would be physical and material. The last I checked, humans are physical and material. I really can't imagine the scenario where an entire civilization is transported to another world of space, but TUB says it can be done; so, I trust it must be so.

Prove it. Until you ARE them, you cannot, absolutely CANNOT make this statement. You are not these personalities to experience what they have experienced, nor perceive how they perceive, interpret how they interpret, understand how they understand etc. and most importantly have no idea their communion with Father.


It sounds like you are identifying yourself as one of these people I described, based upon the amount of defensive posturing in the above post. Let me ask you this, "Do you believe that the material/physical world will become extinct? If that is what you're saying, if it's part of your religious beliefs, then far be it for me to "attack" anyone's personal belief structure. But you have to realize that TUB doesn't agree with that. Not at all.

Pious religionists have been hoping for and not so pious religionists have been worrying about the end of the world even before the Sumerians came up with the flood story. It goes along with Todd's concern over suffering, an age old human dilemma when contemplating God. How can he allow so such evil? It's the source of the Gnostic myths about the Demiurge, hell and all manner of archetypal falsehoods.

TUB does a nice job of explaining all this, so there's no need to hope for the end of the world and the end of its suffering nor wish for the death of all evil people in the process. It's a mental conundrum that developed in the primordial mind, an idea that needs to be sacrificed on the pyre of spiritual progress. Which is why we have Revelation in the first place, to provide the spark for the funeral pyre of antiquated ideas about God, his world and his creatures – his magnificent Creation which we should cherish and respect. Extinction doesn't fit with those ideas. It just doesn't.

#60 FTFSGRL

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 08:33 PM

Be you perfect as I am perfect. God is not physical in nature therefore if humans came to extinction, "humans" would continue on a spiritual level as "Jesus" did after his resurrection. I would rather be with Father on this level and wish everyone the same experience since it is an amazing one instead of the suffering life to all. I am not saying it is a bad thing to live and suffer, but look around you. Government won't support their own living in poverty. Won't help the veterans that THEY sent to war. etc Companies rights are becoming more important than that of the consumer. We're all going to be a bar code for the govn't to keep in line without any privacy with all these cameras going up. GO SHEEP!

It was wrong for Adam and Eve but it is ok now to "assist" with the speeding up of evolution? (as I have mentioned before)

Bonita, just because I have this belief does not mean I don't have the courage to face the world and the people in it as you say. It is not based on just one opinion but is included in a variety of opinions that formulate a higher understanding and perspective based on the SoT.

Let me explain it this way... you have a dog that was hit by a car, mangled and still alive, what would you do? Euthanize it? OR let it suffer?

Thirdly since not many of you can view my statement in its entirety, why would I put myself down? I have found God, have a position of power and live comfortably and am generous and loving with what I do for those around me.

Just as those people who didn't agree with the writings of the Bible were called heretics, just as those people who didn't agree with TUB....not everything published in books is truth. Just because ones viewpoint is different does not mean one should conform to the other just because of a book. The book is not what guides me. Communion with the SoT is. Conviction.

I will not conform to anyone's belief. I am my own personality and can live my own experiences to gain my own insight and understanding according to the SoT.




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