Jump to content


Photo

International Study Day - 2011


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#21 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 21 May 2011 - 07:53 PM

.


So truth cannot be pinned down. In the farewell discourse Paper (180), it is said another way:

...You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct.... P.1949 - §4


Truth and faith are woven together throughout the book; they are indissolubly linked in all wanting to be "God-like". And Godlikeness is yet another consistent but little understood theme in this revelation, eh?

...Does faith, after all, triumph over evil, sin, and iniquity? It does. And the life and death of Jesus are the eternal proof that the truth of goodness and the faith of the spirit-led creature will always be vindicated.... P.2063 - §0


Mithraism is certainly known in history. But is Nabon known apart from the UB? A web search found nothing except what's in the book.


.

#22 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 May 2011 - 03:35 AM

.



Welcome to the 2011 International Study Day.


This Year's Presentation Is:


PAPER 132 of The URANTIA BOOK


~ THE SOJOURN AT ROME ~


4. PERSONAL MINISTRY


P.1460 - §5 Jesus did not devote all his leisure while in Rome to this work of preparing men and women to become future disciples in the oncoming kingdom. He spent much time gaining an intimate knowledge of all races and classes of men who lived in this, the largest and most cosmopolitan city of the world. In each of these numerous human contacts Jesus had a double purpose: He desired to learn their reactions to the life they were living in the flesh, and he was also minded to say or do something to make that life richer and more worth while. His religious teachings during these weeks were no different than those which characterized his later life as teacher of the twelve and preacher to the multitudes.

P.1460 - §6 Always the burden of his message was: the fact of the heavenly Father's love and the truth of his mercy, coupled with the good news that man is a faith-son of this same God of love. Jesus' usual technique of social contact was to draw people out and into talking with him by asking them questions. The interview would usually begin by his asking them questions and end by their asking him questions. He was equally adept in teaching by either asking or answering questions. As a rule, to those he taught the most, he said the least. Those who derived most benefit from his personal ministry were overburdened, anxious, and dejected mortals who gained much relief because of the opportunity to unburden their souls to a sympathetic and understanding listener, and he was all that and more. And when these maladjusted human beings had told Jesus about their troubles, always was he able to offer practical and immediately helpful suggestions looking toward the correction of their real difficulties, albeit he did not neglect to speak words of present comfort and immediate consolation. And invariably would he tell these distressed mortals about the love of God and impart the information, by various and sundry methods, that they were the children of this loving Father in heaven.

P.1461 - §1 In this manner, during the sojourn in Rome, Jesus personally came into affectionate and uplifting contact with upward of five hundred mortals of the realm. He thus gained a knowledge of the different races of mankind which he could never have acquired in Jerusalem and hardly even in Alexandria. He always regarded this six months as one of the richest and most informative of any like period of his earth life.

P.1461 - §2 As might have been expected, such a versatile and aggressive man could not thus function for six months in the world's metropolis without being approached by numerous persons who desired to secure his services in connection with some business or, more often, for some project of teaching, social reform, or religious movement. More than a dozen such proffers were made, and he utilized each one as an opportunity for imparting some thought of spiritual ennoblement by well-chosen words or by some obliging service. Jesus was very fond of doing things--even little things--for all sorts of people.


P.1461 - §3 He talked with a Roman senator on politics and statesmanship, and this one contact with Jesus made such an impression on this legislator that he spent the rest of his life vainly trying to induce his colleagues to change the course of the ruling policy from the idea of the government supporting and feeding the people to that of the people supporting the government. Jesus spent one evening with a wealthy slaveholder, talked about man as a son of God, and the next day this man, Claudius, gave freedom to one hundred and seventeen slaves. He visited at dinner with a Greek physician, telling him that his patients had minds and souls as well as bodies, and thus led this able doctor to attempt a more far-reaching ministry to his fellow men. He talked with all sorts of people in every walk of life. The only place in Rome he did not visit was the public baths. He refused to accompany his friends to the baths because of the sex promiscuity which there prevailed.


P.1461 - §4 To a Roman soldier, as they walked along the Tiber, he said: "Be brave of heart as well as of hand. Dare to do justice and be big enough to show mercy. Compel your lower nature to obey your higher nature as you obey your superiors. Revere goodness and exalt truth. Choose the beautiful in place of the ugly. Love your fellows and reach out for God with a whole heart, for God is your Father in heaven."


P.1461 - §5 To the speaker at the forum he said: "Your eloquence is pleasing, your logic is admirable, your voice is pleasant, but your teaching is hardly true. If you could only enjoy the inspiring satisfaction of knowing God as your spiritual Father, then you might employ your powers of speech to liberate your fellows from the bondage of darkness and from the slavery of ignorance." This was the Marcus who heard Peter preach in Rome and became his successor. When they crucified Simon Peter, it was this man who defied the Roman persecutors and boldly continued to preach the new gospel.


P.1462 - §1 Meeting a poor man who had been falsely accused, Jesus went with him before the magistrate and, having been granted special permission to appear in his behalf, made that superb address in the course of which he said: "Justice makes a nation great, and the greater a nation the more solicitous will it be to see that injustice shall not befall even its most humble citizen. Woe upon any nation when only those who possess money and influence can secure ready justice before its courts! It is the sacred duty of a magistrate to acquit the innocent as well as to punish the guilty. Upon the impartiality, fairness, and integrity of its courts the endurance of a nation depends. Civil government is founded on justice, even as true religion is founded on mercy." The judge reopened the case, and when the evidence had been sifted, he discharged the prisoner. Of all Jesus' activities during these days of personal ministry, this came the nearest to being a public appearance.



***



Section 5 of Paper 132 will be posted in a few hours. Between now and then your comments, insights and questions are invited. Thank you for studying with us!]



.

#23 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 May 2011 - 06:41 AM

.



Good Sunday Fellow Urantians,

Does this sentence stick in your head too? What a smile from an enlightened being can do!

...As a rule, to those he taught the most, he said the least....


Apparently the Master of a universe can and does learn from his creations.

...He always regarded this six months as one of the richest and most informative of any like period of his earth life....



The author of this Section packed in so many remarkable details of Jesus' personal ministry. And in those details are several magnificent lessons on backward government, the importance of the quality of justice, the blight of slavery, holistic medicine, virtuous soldiering, and the bondage of ignorance. He even took a shot at law practice, and won! What a scene it must have been, that speech before the Roman court.

Up next, a whole Section on: COUNSELING THE RICH MAN. You think Jesus was the richest man who ever lived on Urantia?



.

#24 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 May 2011 - 07:38 AM

.

PS. I made a stupendously gross error in an earlier post, saying Michael is a mere billion years old, it could be half a trillion or more!

...Michael of Nebadon is the 611,121st bestowal of the Eternal Son upon the universes of time and space, and he began the organization of your local universe about four hundred billion years ago.... P.1309 - §1




.

#25 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 22 May 2011 - 08:52 AM

P.1459 - §1 Nabon was a Greek Jew and foremost among the leaders of the chief mystery cult in Rome, the Mithraic. While this high priest of Mithraism held many conferences with the Damascus scribe, he was most permanently influenced by their discussion of truth and faith one evening. Nabon had thought to make a convert of Jesus and had even suggested that he return to Palestine as a Mithraic teacher. He little realized that Jesus was preparing him to become one of the early converts to the gospel of the kingdom. Restated in modern phraseology, the substance of Jesus' teaching was:

Clearly, Nabon was a convert to the Mithraic cult and desired to convert Jesus to it as well. Why a Jew with a superior monotheistic religion would regress to a pagan, henotheistic religion like Mithraism, in the first place, is rather mystifying. It's intersting, too, that the talk on good and evil did not spill over into Jesus' discussions with the Mithraic priest because Mithraism is steeped in the Persian concepts of duality.

P.1459 - §2 Truth cannot be defined with words, only by living. Truth is always more than knowledge. Knowledge pertains to things observed, but truth transcends such purely material levels in that it consorts with wisdom and embraces such imponderables as human experience, even spiritual and living realities. Knowledge originates in science; wisdom, in true philosophy; truth, in the religious experience of spiritual living. Knowledge deals with facts; wisdom, with relationships; truth, with reality values.

Now we're moving on from true values to reality values which can only be arrived at by living truth. We know from Jesus' previous two talks that true values are given to us by the Adjuster, the personality identifies and chooses them and then works toward personal enlightenment through the experience of living out those values, thereby making them real.

P.1459 - §3 Man tends to crystallize science, formulate philosophy, and dogmatize truth because he is mentally lazy in adjusting to the progressive struggles of living, while he is also terribly afraid of the unknown. Natural man is slow to initiate changes in his habits of thinking and in his techniques of living.

But, here again we are admonished about human laziness and fear. Read again what Jesus said to Mardus the cynic. He warns both Mardus and Nabon against standing still, against being satisfied with the status quo. Even today, we want all of our problems solved for us in one glorious rapture.

P.1457 - §5 If you are ethically lazy and socially indifferent, you can take as your standard of good the current social usages. If you are spiritually indolent and morally unprogressive, you may take as your standards of good the religious practices and traditions of your contemporaries.

In the next quote, Jesus stresses, once again, that true values require soul struggle. They must be discovered. We are told again that our supreme delight is thwarted by laziness and fear. Jesus also drops another hint: revealed truth is the same as the soul. It is a joint creation of mind and Adjuster.

P.1459 - §4 Revealed truth, personally discovered truth, is the supreme delight of the human soul; it is the joint creation of the material mind and the indwelling spirit. The eternal salvation of this truth-discerning and beauty-loving soul is assured by that hunger and thirst for goodness which leads this mortal to develop a singleness of purpose to do the Father's will, to find God and to become like him. There is never conflict between true knowledge and truth. There may be conflict between knowledge and human beliefs, beliefs colored with prejudice, distorted by fear, and dominated by the dread of facing new facts of material discovery or spiritual progress.

At the end of the quote above, Jesus explains that the source of much of our laziness and fear comes from beliefs. He uses this as a segue to a new component of true values–faith. Faith is the leading indicator and without it the Adjuster is helpless to reveal true values to us. Without the key which releases this germ seed within our minds, our personalities are left clinging to materiality with no hope of growth or immortality. We fall back upon evolutionary beliefs and hinder creative imagination and personal revelation (our souls). Faith is an exercise. It takes effort.

P.1459 - §5 But truth can never become man's possession without the exercise of faith. This is true because man's thoughts, wisdom, ethics, and ideals will never rise higher than his faith, his sublime hope. And all such true faith is predicated on profound reflection, sincere self-criticism, and uncompromising moral consciousness. Faith is the inspiration of the spiritized creative imagination.

P.1459 - §6 Faith acts to release the superhuman activities of the divine spark, the immortal germ, that lives within the mind of man, and which is the potential of eternal survival.


Besides faith, Jesus introduces this other new idea, the creative imagination. It's not odd to me that a Creator desires his offspring to be creative as well. But here he explains the importance of it as part of personal revelation, soul growth immortality, the attainment of enlightenment, personal light and life. And here's the linchpin–prayer–he explains that prayer is the unifier of our faith, our creative imagination and the indwelling Adjuster, who is our source of true values.

P.1460 - §3 Universe progress is characterized by increasing personality freedom because it is associated with the progressive attainment of higher and higher levels of self-understanding and consequent voluntary self-restraint. The attainment of perfection of spiritual self-restraint equals completeness of universe freedom and personal liberty. Faith fosters and maintains man's soul in the midst of the confusion of his early orientation in such a vast universe, whereas prayer becomes the great unifier of the various inspirations of the creative imagination and the faith urges of a soul trying to identify itself with the spirit ideals of the indwelling and associated divine presence.

Edited by Bonita, 22 May 2011 - 08:54 AM.


#26 Nigel Nunn

Nigel Nunn

    Poster

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 1,118 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 22 May 2011 - 10:06 AM

Bonita,
thank you for helping to bring these paragraphs to life!
Nigel

#27 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 May 2011 - 10:41 AM

Bonita,
thank you for helping to bring these paragraphs to life!
Nigel


Agreed!!

#28 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 May 2011 - 10:49 AM

.



Welcome to the 2011 International Study Day.


This Year's Presentation Is:


PAPER 132 of The URANTIA BOOK


~ THE SOJOURN AT ROME ~


5. COUNSELING THE RICH MAN


P.1462 - §2 A certain rich man, a Roman citizen and a Stoic, became greatly interested in Jesus' teaching, having been introduced by Angamon. After many intimate conferences this wealthy citizen asked Jesus what he would do with wealth if he had it, and Jesus answered him: "I would bestow material wealth for the enhancement of material life, even as I would minister knowledge, wisdom, and spiritual service for the enrichment of the intellectual life, the ennoblement of the social life, and the advancement of the spiritual life. I would administer material wealth as a wise and effective trustee of the resources of one generation for the benefit and ennoblement of the next and succeeding generations."

P.1462 - §3 But the rich man was not fully satisfied with Jesus' answer. He made bold to ask again: "But what do you think a man in my position should do with his wealth? Should I keep it, or should I give it away?" And when Jesus perceived that he really desired to know more of the truth about his loyalty to God and his duty to men, he further answered: "My good friend, I discern that you are a sincere seeker after wisdom and an honest lover of truth; therefore am I minded to lay before you my view of the solution of your problems having to do with the responsibilities of wealth. I do this because you have asked for my counsel, and in giving you this advice, I am not concerned with the wealth of any other rich man; I am offering advice only to you and for your personal guidance. If you honestly desire to regard your wealth as a trust, if you really wish to become a wise and efficient steward of your accumulated wealth, then would I counsel you to make the following analysis of the sources of your riches: Ask yourself, and do your best to find the honest answer, whence came this wealth? And as a help in the study of the sources of your great fortune, I would suggest that you bear in mind the following ten different methods of amassing material wealth:

P.1462 - §4 "1. Inherited wealth--riches derived from parents and other ancestors.

P.1462 - §5 "2. Discovered wealth--riches derived from the uncultivated resources of mother earth.

P.1462 - §6 "3. Trade wealth--riches obtained as a fair profit in the exchange and barter of material goods.

P.1462 - §7 "4. Unfair wealth--riches derived from the unfair exploitation or the enslavement of one's fellows.

P.1463 - §1 "5. Interest wealth--income derived from the fair and just earning possibilities of invested capital.

P.1463 - §2 "6. Genius wealth--riches accruing from the rewards of the creative and inventive endowments of the human mind.

P.1463 - §3 "7. Accidental wealth--riches derived from the generosity of one's fellows or taking origin in the circumstances of life.

P.1463 - §4 "8. Stolen wealth--riches secured by unfairness, dishonesty, theft, or fraud.

P.1463 - §5 "9. Trust funds--wealth lodged in your hands by your fellows for some specific use, now or in the future.

P.1463 - §6 "10. Earned wealth--riches derived directly from your own personal labor, the fair and just reward of your own daily efforts of mind and body.

P.1463 - §7 "And so, my friend, if you would be a faithful and just steward of your large fortune, before God and in service to men, you must approximately divide your wealth into these ten grand divisions, and then proceed to administer each portion in accordance with the wise and honest interpretation of the laws of justice, equity, fairness, and true efficiency; albeit, the God of heaven would not condemn you if sometimes you erred, in doubtful situations, on the side of merciful and unselfish regard for the distress of the suffering victims of the unfortunate circumstances of mortal life. When in honest doubt about the equity and justice of material situations, let your decisions favor those who are in need, favor those who suffer the misfortune of undeserved hardships."

P.1463 - §8 After discussing these matters for several hours and in response to the rich man's request for further and more detailed instruction, Jesus went on to amplify his advice, in substance saying: "While I offer further suggestions concerning your attitude toward wealth, I would admonish you to receive my counsel as given only to you and for your personal guidance. I speak only for myself and to you as an inquiring friend. I adjure you not to become a dictator as to how other rich men shall regard their wealth. I would advise you:

P.1463 - §9 "1. As steward of inherited wealth you should consider its sources. You are under moral obligation to represent the past generation in the honest transmittal of legitimate wealth to succeeding generations after subtracting a fair toll for the benefit of the present generation. But you are not obligated to perpetuate any dishonesty or injustice involved in the unfair accumulation of wealth by your ancestors. Any portion of your inherited wealth which turns out to have been derived through fraud or unfairness, you may disburse in accordance with your convictions of justice, generosity, and restitution. The remainder of your legitimate inherited wealth you may use in equity and transmit in security as the trustee of one generation for another. Wise discrimination and sound judgment should dictate your decisions regarding the bequest of riches to your successors.

P.1463 - §10 "2. Everyone who enjoys wealth as a result of discovery should remember that one individual can live on earth but a short season and should, therefore, make adequate provision for the sharing of these discoveries in helpful ways by the largest possible number of his fellow men. While the discoverer should not be denied all reward for efforts of discovery, neither should he selfishly presume to lay claim to all of the advantages and blessings to be derived from the uncovering of nature's hoarded resources.

P.1464 - §1 "3. As long as men choose to conduct the world's business by trade and barter, they are entitled to a fair and legitimate profit. Every tradesman deserves wages for his services; the merchant is entitled to his hire. The fairness of trade and the honest treatment accorded one's fellows in the organized business of the world create many different sorts of profit wealth, and all these sources of wealth must be judged by the highest principles of justice, honesty, and fairness. The honest trader should not hesitate to take the same profit which he would gladly accord his fellow trader in a similar transaction. While this sort of wealth is not identical with individually earned income when business dealings are conducted on a large scale, at the same time, such honestly accumulated wealth endows its possessor with a considerable equity as regards a voice in its subsequent distribution.

P.1464 - §2 "4. No mortal who knows God and seeks to do the divine will can stoop to engage in the oppressions of wealth. No noble man will strive to accumulate riches and amass wealth-power by the enslavement or unfair exploitation of his brothers in the flesh. Riches are a moral curse and a spiritual stigma when they are derived from the sweat of oppressed mortal man. All such wealth should be restored to those who have thus been robbed or to their children and their children's children. An enduring civilization cannot be built upon the practice of defrauding the laborer of his hire.

P.1464 - §3 "5. Honest wealth is entitled to interest. As long as men borrow and lend, that which is fair interest may be collected provided the capital lent was legitimate wealth. First cleanse your capital before you lay claim to the interest. Do not become so small and grasping that you would stoop to the practice of usury. Never permit yourself to be so selfish as to employ money-power to gain unfair advantage over your struggling fellows. Yield not to the temptation to take usury from your brother in financial distress.

P.1464 - §4 "6. If you chance to secure wealth by flights of genius, if your riches are derived from the rewards of inventive endowment, do not lay claim to an unfair portion of such rewards. The genius owes something to both his ancestors and his progeny; likewise is he under obligation to the race, nation, and circumstances of his inventive discoveries; he should also remember that it was as man among men that he labored and wrought out his inventions. It would be equally unjust to deprive the genius of all his increment of wealth. And it will ever be impossible for men to establish rules and regulations applicable equally to all these problems of the equitable distribution of wealth. You must first recognize man as your brother, and if you honestly desire to do by him as you would have him do by you, the commonplace dictates of justice, honesty, and fairness will guide you in the just and impartial settlement of every recurring problem of economic rewards and social justice.

P.1464 - §5 "7. Except for the just and legitimate fees earned in administration, no man should lay personal claim to that wealth which time and chance may cause to fall into his hands. Accidental riches should be regarded somewhat in the light of a trust to be expended for the benefit of one's social or economic group. The possessors of such wealth should be accorded the major voice in the determination of the wise and effective distribution of such unearned resources. Civilized man will not always look upon all that he controls as his personal and private possession.

P.1465 - §1 "8. If any portion of your fortune has been knowingly derived from fraud; if aught of your wealth has been accumulated by dishonest practices or unfair methods; if your riches are the product of unjust dealings with your fellows, make haste to restore all these ill-gotten gains to the rightful owners. Make full amends and thus cleanse your fortune of all dishonest riches.

P.1465 - §2 "9. The trusteeship of the wealth of one person for the benefit of others is a solemn and sacred responsibility. Do not hazard or jeopardize such a trust. Take for yourself of any trust only that which all honest men would allow.

P.1465 - §3 "10. That part of your fortune which represents the earnings of your own mental and physical efforts--if your work has been done in fairness and equity--is truly your own. No man can gainsay your right to hold and use such wealth as you may see fit provided your exercise of this right does not work harm upon your fellows."

P.1465 - §4 When Jesus had finished counseling him, this wealthy Roman arose from his couch and, in saying farewell for the night, delivered himself of this promise: "My good friend, I perceive you are a man of great wisdom and goodness, and tomorrow I will begin the administration of all my wealth in accordance with your counsel."



***



Section 6 of Paper 132 will be posted in a few hours. Between now and then your comments, insights and questions are invited. Thank you for studying with us!]



.

#29 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 May 2011 - 03:05 PM

.


Hi All,

The Master evidently wanted the rich Stoic to know, unmistakably, he is offering advice ONLY because the Stoic insisted on knowing Jesus' opinion. The sole italicized word in this Section is here:

...I do this because you have asked for my counsel....


What Jesus proposes could be summed up as logical and equable, ideas that any fair minded selfless person would arrive at given a good education and compassionate upbringing, no?

There's an old axiom that bears on this, kind of humorous and kind of wise: 'It not a sin to be rich, only to die rich' :)

This Section on giving away riches could be construed to be talking to us, after all Urantia believers may in fact be the richest people on the planet, in terms of what's truly real and valuable, eh?


Usury, as I understand it, is simply charging interest on borrowed money, something that is today considered a usual business practice, unless it goes over a certain percentage. Do you think Jesus is here suggesting all usury is stooping and unfraternal?

...Do not become so small and grasping that you would stoop to the practice of usury....



***

The Master teacher encapsulates the whole lesson in this sentence, eh?

...You must first recognize man as your brother, and if you honestly desire to do by him as you would have him do by you, the commonplace dictates of justice, honesty, and fairness will guide you in the just and impartial settlement of every recurring problem of economic rewards and social justice....


How long before the idea that wealth is a trust is a commonly held?

...Civilized man will not always look upon all that he controls as his personal and private possession....


But it is not unheard of, I can think of three billionaires who give away great sums. And there are many philanthropic organizations that distribute grand bestowals from the rich. Isn't all legitimate money/wealth representative of someone's work, an honorable thing that deserves not to be squandered or wasted.

The author of this Paper didn't say if the Stoic followed through, what do you think?

"...I will begin the administration of all my wealth in accordance with your counsel."




.

#30 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 May 2011 - 04:09 PM

.



Welcome to the 2011 International Study Day.


This Year's Presentation Is:


PAPER 132 of The URANTIA BOOK


~ THE SOJOURN AT ROME ~


6. SOCIAL MINISTRY


P.1465 - §5 Here in Rome also occurred that touching incident in which the Creator of a universe spent several hours restoring a lost child to his anxious mother. This little boy had wandered away from his home, and Jesus found him crying in distress. He and Ganid were on their way to the libraries, but they devoted themselves to getting the child back home. Ganid never forgot Jesus' comment: "You know, Ganid, most human beings are like the lost child. They spend much of their time crying in fear and suffering in sorrow when, in very truth, they are but a short distance from safety and security, even as this child was only a little way from home. And all those who know the way of truth and enjoy the assurance of knowing God should esteem it a privilege, not a duty, to offer guidance to their fellows in their efforts to find the satisfactions of living. Did we not supremely enjoy this ministry of restoring the child to his mother? So do those who lead men to God experience the supreme satisfaction of human service." And from that day forward, for the remainder of his natural life, Ganid was continually on the lookout for lost children whom he might restore to their homes.

P.1465 - §6 There was the widow with five children whose husband had been accidentally killed. Jesus told Ganid about the loss of his own father by an accident, and they went repeatedly to comfort this mother and her children, while Ganid sought money from his father to provide food and clothing. They did not cease their efforts until they had found a position for the eldest boy so that he could help in the care of the family.

P.1465 - §7 That night, as Gonod listened to the recital of these experiences, he said to Jesus, good-naturedly: "I propose to make a scholar or a businessman of my son, and now you start out to make a philosopher or philanthropist of him." And Jesus smilingly replied: "Perhaps we will make him all four; then can he enjoy a fourfold satisfaction in life as his ear for the recognition of human melody will be able to recognize four tones instead of one." Then said Gonod: "I perceive that you really are a philosopher. You must write a book for future generations." And Jesus replied: "Not a book--my mission is to live a life in this generation and for all generations. I--" but he stopped, saying to Ganid, "My son, it is time to retire."



***



Section 7 of Paper 132 will be posted in about 4 hours. Between now and then your comments, insights and questions are invited. Thank you for studying with us!]



.

#31 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 May 2011 - 07:22 PM

.


How touching, and what fascinating details of one day in the life of a Creator Son sojourning on one of his planets.

This was an excellent selection for group/global study. Thanks again ANZURA members.

Next up, the final piece: Trips About Rome. Even to Switzerland!


.

#32 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 22 May 2011 - 07:25 PM

.



Welcome to the 2011 International Study Day.


This Year's Presentation Is:


PAPER 132 of The URANTIA BOOK


~ THE SOJOURN AT ROME ~


7. TRIPS ABOUT ROME


P.1466 - §1 Jesus, Gonod, and Ganid made five trips away from Rome to points of interest in the surrounding territory. On their visit to the northern Italian lakes Jesus had the long talk with Ganid concerning the impossibility of teaching a man about God if the man does not desire to know God. They had casually met a thoughtless pagan while on their journey up to the lakes, and Ganid was surprised that Jesus did not follow out his usual practice of enlisting the man in conversation which would naturally lead up to the discussion of spiritual questions. When Ganid asked his teacher why he evinced so little interest in this pagan, Jesus answered:


P.1466 - §2 "Ganid, the man was not hungry for truth. He was not dissatisfied with himself. He was not ready to ask for help, and the eyes of his mind were not open to receive light for the soul. That man was not ripe for the harvest of salvation; he must be allowed more time for the trials and difficulties of life to prepare him for the reception of wisdom and higher learning. Or, if we could have him live with us, we might by our lives show him the Father in heaven, and thus would he become so attracted by our lives as sons of God that he would be constrained to inquire about our Father. You cannot reveal God to those who do not seek for him; you cannot lead unwilling souls into the joys of salvation. Man must become hungry for truth as a result of the experiences of living, or he must desire to know God as the result of contact with the lives of those who are acquainted with the divine Father before another human being can act as the means of leading such a fellow mortal to the Father in heaven. If we know God, our real business on earth is so to live as to permit the Father to reveal himself in our lives, and thus will all God-seeking persons see the Father and ask for our help in finding out more about the God who in this manner finds expression in our lives."


P.1466 - §3 It was on the visit to Switzerland, up in the mountains, that Jesus had an all-day talk with both father and son about Buddhism. Many times Ganid had asked Jesus direct questions about Buddha, but he had always received more or less evasive replies. Now, in the presence of the son, the father asked Jesus a direct question about Buddha, and he received a direct reply. Said Gonod: "I would really like to know what you think of Buddha." And Jesus answered:

P.1466 - §4 "Your Buddha was much better than your Buddhism. Buddha was a great man, even a prophet to his people, but he was an orphan prophet; by that I mean that he early lost sight of his spiritual Father, the Father in heaven. His experience was tragic. He tried to live and teach as a messenger of God, but without God. Buddha guided his ship of salvation right up to the safe harbor, right up to the entrance to the haven of mortal salvation, and there, because of faulty charts of navigation, the good ship ran aground. There it has rested these many generations, motionless and almost hopelessly stranded. And thereon have many of your people remained all these years. They live within hailing distance of the safe waters of rest, but they refuse to enter because the noble craft of the good Buddha met the misfortune of grounding just outside the harbor. And the Buddhist peoples never will enter this harbor unless they abandon the philosophic craft of their prophet and seize upon his noble spirit. Had your people remained true to the spirit of Buddha, you would have long since entered your haven of spirit tranquillity, soul rest, and assurance of salvation.

P.1467 - §1 "You see, Gonod, Buddha knew God in spirit but failed clearly to discover him in mind; the Jews discovered God in mind but largely failed to know him in spirit. Today, the Buddhists flounder about in a philosophy without God, while my people are piteously enslaved to the fear of a God without a saving philosophy of life and liberty. You have a philosophy without a God; the Jews have a God but are largely without a philosophy of living as related thereto. Buddha, failing to envision God as a spirit and as a Father, failed to provide in his teaching the moral energy and the spiritual driving power which a religion must possess if it is to change a race and exalt a nation."

P.1467 - §2 Then exclaimed Ganid: "Teacher, let's you and I make a new religion, one good enough for India and big enough for Rome, and maybe we can trade it to the Jews for Yahweh." And Jesus replied: "Ganid, religions are not made. The religions of men grow up over long periods of time, while the revelations of God flash upon earth in the lives of the men who reveal God to their fellows." But they did not comprehend the meaning of these prophetic words.


P.1467 - §3 That night after they had retired, Ganid could not sleep. He talked a long time with his father and finally said, "You know, father, I sometimes think Joshua is a prophet." And his father only sleepily replied, "My son, there are others--"

P.1467 - §4 From this day, for the remainder of his natural life, Ganid continued to evolve a religion of his own. He was mightily moved in his own mind by Jesus' broadmindedness, fairness, and tolerance. In all their discussions of philosophy and religion this youth never experienced feelings of resentment or reactions of antagonism.


P.1467 - §5 What a scene for the celestial intelligences to behold, this spectacle of the Indian lad proposing to the Creator of a universe that they make a new religion! And though the young man did not know it, they were making a new and everlasting religion right then and there--this new way of salvation, the revelation of God to man through, and in, Jesus. That which the lad wanted most to do he was unconsciously actually doing. And it was, and is, ever thus. That which the enlightened and reflective human imagination of spiritual teaching and leading wholeheartedly and unselfishly wants to do and be, becomes measurably creative in accordance with the degree of mortal dedication to the divine doing of the Father's will. When man goes in partnership with God, great things may, and do, happen.



***




[This topic will remain open, comments, insights and questions are welcome.]



.

#33 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 22 May 2011 - 07:51 PM

Bonita,thank you for helping to bring these paragraphs to life!
Nigel


Thank you Nigel and Rick. I was wondering if my approach was too pedagogic. This is the way I personally study the revelation and thought I'd share it and see what happens. So it's okay to continue then? Let me know if it's too much.

P.1460 - §5 In each of these numerous human contacts Jesus had a double purpose: He desired to learn their reactions to the life they were living in the flesh, and he was also minded to say or do something to make that life richer and more worth while.

These words bring to mind Immanuel's prebestowal charge to Michael:

120:1.3 And when you shall have finished this bestowal experience, you will know in very truth the full meaning and the rich significance of that faith-trust which you so unvaryingly require all your creatures to master as a part of their intimate relationship with you as their local universe Creator and Father.

120:2.5 As concerns the planet of your bestowal and the immediate generation of men living thereon at the time of your mortal sojourn, I counsel you to function largely in the role of a teacher. Give attention, first, to the liberation and inspiration of man's spiritual nature. Next, illuminate the darkened human intellect, heal the souls of men, and emancipate their minds from age-old fears. And then, in accordance with your mortal wisdom, minister to the physical well-being and material comfort of your brothers in the flesh. Live the ideal religious life for the inspiration and edification of all your universe.


It makes sense that Jesus would want to learn as much about people as he possibly could given the mandate above. And isn't it just like our Lord, Michael to be selfless and always look for ways to enrich others. What an inspiration he is! If only we all could enter into every relationship looking for ways to make life richer and more worthwhile for the other.

Jesus' method of teaching was to draw people out, listen and offer help, consolation and information about God. It seems he had a special penchant for identifying distressed and maladjusted psyches. Today we would probably call him a religious psychologist. But what strikes me most is how important the psyche must be in the spiritual life that he would take such care with it. TUB says that the study of another person's religion is really psychology (p1135:3  103:6.1), and if we consider that religion is that which is supremely valuable to a person, it makes sense.

P.1460 - §6 And when these maladjusted human beings had told Jesus about their troubles, always was he able to offer practical and immediately helpful suggestions looking toward the correction of their real difficulties, albeit he did not neglect to speak words of present comfort and immediate consolation. And invariably would he tell these distressed mortals about the love of God and impart the information, by various and sundry methods, that they were the children of this loving Father in heaven.

P.1461 - §2 Jesus was very fond of doing things--even little things--for all sorts of people.


I've been wondering for some time how the message of being children of a loving Father in heaven goes over in our modern world. There must be new ways to impart that message that would mean something to the maladjusted and troubled men and women of our modern era. I've yet to come up with a consistent way to get that message across and I wonder how it can ever be imparted to so many on this world who do not believe in God as a Father. For me it is a personal conundrum.

And since we are not allowed to talk about politics here, I'll only repeat this next quote and hope those who read it savor it and ponder it deeply, especially the word "impartiality".

P.1462 - §1 Upon the impartiality, fairness, and integrity of its courts the endurance of a nation depends.

#34 Guest_rich_*

Guest_rich_*
  • Guests

Posted 25 May 2011 - 09:09 PM

there is a divine truth and a living truth and Truth does exist but only on high spiritual levels of the realization of divinity and the consciousness of communion with God, which we all attain as finaliters.

180:5.2 Divine truth is a spirit-discerned and living reality. Truth exists only on high spiritual levels of the realization of divinity and the consciousness of communion with God. You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct. When you undertake the human formulation of divine truth, it speedily dies. The post-mortem salvage of imprisoned truth, even at best, can eventuate only in the realization of a peculiar form of intellectualized glorified wisdom. Static truth is dead truth, and only dead truth can be held as a theory. Living truth is dynamic and can enjoy only an experiential existence in the human mind.


.


So truth cannot be pinned down. In the farewell discourse Paper (180), it is said another way:

...You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct.... P.1949 - §4



#35 Nigel Nunn

Nigel Nunn

    Poster

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 1,118 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 06 June 2011 - 10:03 AM

Clarification:
I manage to perceive that we should not confuse the Revelations epochal, or this same Fifth Revelation such as the UB with our own revelations, that I mean that sometimes we receive as a result of our will "personal revelations" from our Adjuster

This concept of planetary vs. personal revelation raised some discussion at our study with members of the Theosophical Society. Recall that one motto of the TS is: "There is no religion higher than truth."
So, they may have some insight into this (next time I will ask!):

"[...] The post-mortem salvage of imprisoned truth, even at best, can eventuate only in the realization of a peculiar form of intellectualized glorified wisdom. Static truth is dead truth, and only dead truth can be held as a theory. Living truth is dynamic and can enjoy only an experiential existence in the human mind." [(1949.4) 180:5.2]

I guess we would all admit that personal revelation involves experience with truth. So what sort of "truth" might be made available via this collection of 196 papers? Here is where the idea of a "universe frame" came up. [(1260.2,3) 115:1.1,2]. An opportunity made possible by these papers is for us 21st century souls to set up a shared "frame in which to think", one big enough to accommodate "personal revelation" as part of a very normal, main-stream kind of life. Imagine a generation of teenagers experiencing what Gautama Siddhartha did, but without the fuss. We might see such preliminary enlightenment as, well, a necessary step to full adult status, earning one the right to vote, or to raise children? :)

"Volition, the act of choosing, must function within the universe frame which has actualized in response to higher and prior choosing." [(1300.3) 118:6.7]

All the Theosophists at our study had heard of the Urantia book, but few knew much about the "universe frame" it sets up.
So, as an "ice-breaker", we started our study by test-driving a new 9 minute DVD intro: YouTube version
(For those with fast connection, this looks best at 720p [HD], and played full screen.)

Nigel

#36 Rita Schaad

Rita Schaad

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Newcastle, Australia
  • Interests:am happily involved in minding forms and forming minds of preschool children.

Posted 10 June 2011 - 08:12 AM

.


How touching, and what fascinating details of one day in the life of a Creator Son sojourning on one of his planets.

This was an excellent selection for group/global study. Thanks again ANZURA members.

Next up, the final piece: Trips About Rome. Even to Switzerland!


.


Hello all - finally I'd like to add a reply and many thanks to Rick for hosting the online study Group.

When I read that passage the first time I got a real fuzzy feeling - Jesus was in Switzerland - yey!

The Sydney Study group met on the Saturday and before reading the paper we looked at some maps of the region and marveled at extend and length of this Journey. Once in Italy they just walked - everywhere. Kind of hard to imagine, but somehow it makes me take notice. And also, I would love to know where exatly the travellers entered Switzerland and how it looked then. Mhmmmm - will have to wait till I can grab some historic visuals on the manison worlds.

Rita

#37 Rita Schaad

Rita Schaad

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Newcastle, Australia
  • Interests:am happily involved in minding forms and forming minds of preschool children.

Posted 10 June 2011 - 09:04 AM

Thank you Nigel and Rick. I was wondering if my approach was too pedagogic. This is the way I personally study the revelation and thought I'd share it and see what happens. So it's okay to continue then? Let me know if it's too much.

P.1460 - §5 In each of these numerous human contacts Jesus had a double purpose: He desired to learn their reactions to the life they were living in the flesh, and he was also minded to say or do something to make that life richer and more worth while.

These words bring to mind Immanuel's prebestowal charge to Michael:

120:1.3 And when you shall have finished this bestowal experience, you will know in very truth the full meaning and the rich significance of that faith-trust which you so unvaryingly require all your creatures to master as a part of their intimate relationship with you as their local universe Creator and Father.

120:2.5 As concerns the planet of your bestowal and the immediate generation of men living thereon at the time of your mortal sojourn, I counsel you to function largely in the role of a teacher. Give attention, first, to the liberation and inspiration of man's spiritual nature. Next, illuminate the darkened human intellect, heal the souls of men, and emancipate their minds from age-old fears. And then, in accordance with your mortal wisdom, minister to the physical well-being and material comfort of your brothers in the flesh. Live the ideal religious life for the inspiration and edification of all your universe.


It makes sense that Jesus would want to learn as much about people as he possibly could given the mandate above. And isn't it just like our Lord, Michael to be selfless and always look for ways to enrich others. What an inspiration he is! If only we all could enter into every relationship looking for ways to make life richer and more worthwhile for the other.

Jesus' method of teaching was to draw people out, listen and offer help, consolation and information about God. It seems he had a special penchant for identifying distressed and maladjusted psyches. Today we would probably call him a religious psychologist. But what strikes me most is how important the psyche must be in the spiritual life that he would take such care with it. TUB says that the study of another person's religion is really psychology (p1135:3  103:6.1), and if we consider that religion is that which is supremely valuable to a person, it makes sense.

P.1460 - §6 And when these maladjusted human beings had told Jesus about their troubles, always was he able to offer practical and immediately helpful suggestions looking toward the correction of their real difficulties, albeit he did not neglect to speak words of present comfort and immediate consolation. And invariably would he tell these distressed mortals about the love of God and impart the information, by various and sundry methods, that they were the children of this loving Father in heaven.

P.1461 - §2 Jesus was very fond of doing things--even little things--for all sorts of people.


I've been wondering for some time how the message of being children of a loving Father in heaven goes over in our modern world. There must be new ways to impart that message that would mean something to the maladjusted and troubled men and women of our modern era. I've yet to come up with a consistent way to get that message across and I wonder how it can ever be imparted to so many on this world who do not believe in God as a Father. For me it is a personal conundrum.

And since we are not allowed to talk about politics here, I'll only repeat this next quote and hope those who read it savor it and ponder it deeply, especially the word "impartiality".

P.1462 - §1 Upon the impartiality, fairness, and integrity of its courts the endurance of a nation depends.



Dear Bonita and everyone

really appreciated your way of studying the subject mater and loved the many thoughts you brought up. Had to read the posts over a few times and think about them. My last few weeks had me all in the grip of ' responding to daily living' and writing a reply got pushed further and further away!

I have similar thoughts about using the term of 'loving Father in heaven' when ministering/interacting with those troubled fellow mortals. I am forever looking for words and examples that are part of our modern experience but yes - am hesitant and stop before mentioning anyting about a heavenly Father. Guess I'm looking also for a new way of packaging these truths.
This leads very much to a more psychological approach - as you mentioned as well. Only by understanding the state of mind /attitude a person is in can we attempt to respond appropriately in order to try to 'enlighten' or present a new way of thinking. Sometimes I find it not even necessary to add or want to change a person's outlook because the way they present their 'worldview' is indication enough that they are on the way of finding out the greater truths themselves in their own fasion, in their own time. It's like trusting in the outworkings of the spirit.

Jesus' technique of teaching keeps on being a great inspiration - most of all the way he instantly and completely accepted the people he 'visited' with. Self esteem and confidence are greatly enhanced when one feels accepted and it is much easier then to venture out and consider a new and enhanced way of thinking about something.



Many thanks to every one again for participating in the Study Day - we'll do it again next year!

Rita




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users